This literally made me go "whoa, what the hell?" when I read it, because while the Clint so far in this series is dark and edgy... this is so much the kind of warning that's associated with Nat that it's startling to see it coming from him.
Yeah, I love it too. You expect him to be the one who has his shit together, who doesn't have too many ghosts in the closet, but it just ain't true of the Clint in this verse. And it kind of goes back to the headcanon discussion quennessa, sugar and I were having the other day about Clint being just as dangerous as she is, although you don't see it as much. And of course one of the main themes of this series, that he's just as dark (if not in fact darker) than she is.
There's a slight edge of scorn to this that I kind of love her having and really emphasizes where her head probably is.
I LOVE that you picked up on this. LOVE. The scorn you sense is actually Nat picking up on something very real--namely, that he is always wary of her. No matter how close they get, he's always holding back, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. There's a distance he puts between them; part self-preservation, part-trying so hard not to believe what she told him long ago about being one of the monsters. It honestly breaks my heart for both of them.
I can't decide if I do or do NOT want to know what those things are or what happened to her on that mission. Yikes.
Believe me, I only have a vague sense of the details and it's not good. What I wanted to do here with the PTSD is show them both with the same condition, but have it manifest itself in different ways because of the kind of trauma they're dealing with. With Clint, it's combat-related trauma (as my headcanon has him in the military and in Iraq at some point-- helloo thar Hurt Locker fusion). With Nat, I see hers at somewhat combat-related, but also sexual-trauma (no doubt from her wholesome Red Room upbringing). I intentionally kept both vague b/c for one I don't feel like I have enough authority to go into detail on either, and also because I didn't want it to be too distracting. But yeah, same condition, different manifestations.
Although it feels so much like he's been shutting himself out almost as much as she has, and I really wonder about that, and what's going through his head through all of this.
GAH. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. This is such a great observation. It's one of the primary mysteries of Clint in this verse. Bob really sets it out beautifully in road to damascus, which is told entirely from his POV. He holds so much back, even from himself. And as she says, he doesn't really speak "in terms of emotion."
In some ways he feels very simple to me-- he loves Natasha, loves her to the point of unhealthy obsession, has the overwhelming desire to save her, even though (and maybe because) he knows he can't save himself. But in other ways, he's a closed book, not available for observation or introspection.
a friend of mine has done stuff on courtly love/bdsm relationships
Oh wow. That sounds fascinating. As does your term paper. <3
As for the last few observations in your comment, that was really just me giving context to Bob's words. And the "you're better than this, better than me" --- GAH! I love it so much. I love the ambiguity of it. I have my own interpretation, but for now I think I'll keep mum and encourage speculation. I also need to ask Bob what hers is-- we should probably line that up at some point. ;)
Epic response to Epic comment of awesomeness. :D
Yeah, I love it too. You expect him to be the one who has his shit together, who doesn't have too many ghosts in the closet, but it just ain't true of the Clint in this verse. And it kind of goes back to the headcanon discussion quennessa, sugar and I were having the other day about Clint being just as dangerous as she is, although you don't see it as much. And of course one of the main themes of this series, that he's just as dark (if not in fact darker) than she is.
There's a slight edge of scorn to this that I kind of love her having and really emphasizes where her head probably is.
I LOVE that you picked up on this. LOVE. The scorn you sense is actually Nat picking up on something very real--namely, that he is always wary of her. No matter how close they get, he's always holding back, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. There's a distance he puts between them; part self-preservation, part-trying so hard not to believe what she told him long ago about being one of the monsters. It honestly breaks my heart for both of them.
I can't decide if I do or do NOT want to know what those things are or what happened to her on that mission. Yikes.
Believe me, I only have a vague sense of the details and it's not good. What I wanted to do here with the PTSD is show them both with the same condition, but have it manifest itself in different ways because of the kind of trauma they're dealing with. With Clint, it's combat-related trauma (as my headcanon has him in the military and in Iraq at some point-- helloo thar Hurt Locker fusion). With Nat, I see hers at somewhat combat-related, but also sexual-trauma (no doubt from her wholesome Red Room upbringing). I intentionally kept both vague b/c for one I don't feel like I have enough authority to go into detail on either, and also because I didn't want it to be too distracting. But yeah, same condition, different manifestations.
Although it feels so much like he's been shutting himself out almost as much as she has, and I really wonder about that, and what's going through his head through all of this.
GAH. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. This is such a great observation. It's one of the primary mysteries of Clint in this verse. Bob really sets it out beautifully in road to damascus, which is told entirely from his POV. He holds so much back, even from himself. And as she says, he doesn't really speak "in terms of emotion."
In some ways he feels very simple to me-- he loves Natasha, loves her to the point of unhealthy obsession, has the overwhelming desire to save her, even though (and maybe because) he knows he can't save himself. But in other ways, he's a closed book, not available for observation or introspection.
a friend of mine has done stuff on courtly love/bdsm relationships
Oh wow. That sounds fascinating. As does your term paper. <3
As for the last few observations in your comment, that was really just me giving context to Bob's words. And the "you're better than this, better than me" --- GAH! I love it so much. I love the ambiguity of it. I have my own interpretation, but for now I think I'll keep mum and encourage speculation. I also need to ask Bob what hers is-- we should probably line that up at some point. ;)