be_compromised | ATTF: Research!

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ATTF: Research!

Greetings, Denizens of the Hawkeye/Black Widow Bar, also known as the place where cool people hang out, aka the best bar on earth, aka our ship is a yacht, and hundreds of other names. How’s your Friday? Good? Oh, you got that promotion/gift basket/thing you've been waiting for in the mail? Excellent! I’m so happy to hear that. Me? Oh, I’m good, too. The mods have let me loose in the bar to host today’s All The Things Friday.

Anyway, the topic I picked is something I know we all wake up thinking about with giant smiles on our faces in the morning: Research!

Yes, I know. Usually we focus on Clint or Natasha and head-canons and aww-inducing stuff, and research is boring compared to that. But I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that nobody here is a spy or a marksman employed by a well-funded shadowy government organization. So, really, “write what you know” isn’t going to help you much when writing from Clint’s perspective or from Natasha’s. In fact, you probably need to do a little research to get the details right. I mean, you could make everything up—and a lot of writers do—but chances are, you take pride in what you’re writing and want it to be a little factually accurate. A story with good world-building has a few details salted throughout to “ground” it, to make it dynamic and interesting.

So here’s the question—how much research do you do? And, for that matter, how do you research? A typical Clint and/or Natasha story might have a myriad of topics with which we’re unfamiliar: geography, military tactics, weaponry, surveillance protocols, anecdotal data specific to a character. If it’s an AU, even, all bets are off the table. Going down the research rabbit hole can start with you looking up the capital of Peru and end with you, three hours later, reading about the number and skill of knots on ropes given out for Brazilian Capoeira (I may be speaking from experience here).

We live in a digital age, which makes it easier to find research and that’s fantastic, but it can be daunting to even begin, especially when it’s a topic that’s completely unfamiliar to you.

So we have this post! I’ve gathered some links that have been helpful during my times of going down said research rabbit hole. In addition, I know we’ve got a diverse and eclectic community of wonderful people right here at this bar, pill baristas and traveling diplomats, technical writers, needlework genii, and people from all over the world that might know something about the topic you’re writing about, whatever it is. So I thought this post could serve as a great resource to everybody in the community. Chime in with any links you’ve found super-handy over the years, and what you can answer questions about!

(Also, graphics resources are awesome and should be shared, by all means)

Some of the Links I've Found Useful Over The Years:

little_details - Little Details is a research-themed livejournal community that's neatly organized by tags and topic, where you can ask questions about specific research concerns you have. It's a great resource when Google has failed you.

Speaking of Google - This is a great infographic that shows you how to search Google more efficiently, which includes narrowing your results by relevancy and other neat tips and tricks.

The Internet Movie Firearms Database: The Avengers - If it were up to me, I'd describe weapons as "the gun" and "the other gun" but I came from a fandom where weapons were pretty common. This website is a lifesaver. It provides images of guns used by actors in TV and film, with descriptions and cross-referenced lists of where else said firearm has been used. Probably won't want to visit it on your work servers, though.

Wikitravel - I know, it's lame to reference wikipedia in a research article, given how much information is wrong on that site, but I do think it's a good place to start, provided you take everything on the site with a grain of salt. When I'm doing a lot of geographical research, I always start at Wikitravel, and move on to other vacation sites, as they can provide a surprising amount of information about a local area, including the cheapest and best ways to get somewhere.

Writer's Forensics Blog - Probably not directly relevant, but I love reading this blog and I thought I would share.

Anyway, I'll kick things off: my name is Frea, and I'm well-researched into dealing with fraudulent activity, falconry, how to juggle, and the greater St. Louis area, which is why watching Defiance sometimes makes me grit my teeth. What about you? What's your research pattern like? Do you outline or use a program like Scrivener to keep it together? Any tricks or great links or things you can provide help on?

Things to remember:
1) Always label NSFW (Not Safe For Work) stuff in the title and post under a cut.
2) Fic and artwork needs to have a rating and warnings (or you can say that you’ve chosen not to use warnings).
3) For people with annoying internet connections, say in the title if a comment is graphic/images/gif-heavy and post picspams under a cut.
4) Have a damn good time! (Because if that’s not happening then this post has clearly failed.)

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Who here is a pill barista???? I assume that means a pharmacist...I am too! As far as what "I know"...Greater Los Angeles area, meds, being a mom...and that's about it.

(FYI, I know this sounds cray-cray, but I think I might have seen the little Renner-babe a few weeks ago...and I often see pics of him around where I work in West Hollyood so I'm waiting for the day I see him. And just squee in private because no way will I bother him.)

Anyway, I haven't written any fic so I haven't done much research on anything. Actually a lot of my knowledge stems from fics. But its funny, I wonder how much is "true". Especially tech / military stuff.

As a girl trying to improve my writing I do as much research as possible.....especially when it comes to health like broken bones and heart attacks etc.

More recently I had to look up more research on the Israeli army for an NCIS fic (while I had a lot of info from my trip last year I had to some extra research to make sure I was hearing a fact correctly).

I think it's very important to have your facts straight when writing otherwise you look like a fool if your fic has the wrong fact.

I have a seriously mixed bag of research needs and tools. Since I'd never read a single Marvel comic when I started writing in this fandom, character research was Big. Google is my friend when it comes to that stuff. (Of course, what I found made my head spin so I stuck to tombstone type things, and ignored the rest at my convenience. Fortunately, so do many of the comic writers themselves.)

As for realistic touches, a lot of the "local colour" I stick into stories (like the streets of Tbilisi, right down to the satellite dish on an earthquake-cracked building; the chaos around the UN building when the heads of state are in town for the General Assembly) comes from my own memory banks, so that is rather handy.

But I've never been to Long Island, Montana or to Abidjan, so maps are a total necessity (eg to map our assassins' trek to Abidjan airport, both routing and distances.) How I found out that the place they send Loki off from is called Bethesda Terrace. Nope -- can't beat a good map.

First-hand reporting (or, as they call it in the trade, "HUMINT") can come in awfully handy, too. My husband is a walking encyclopedia on firearms (don't ask ...), astrophysical and astronomical phenomena (comes in handy for Trek stuff) and carpentry tools. A shining example of recent research consisted of me sending him an e-mail that went something like this: "Hey there, can you use a staple gun to kill someone? What other stuff in your shop could you use?"

So, it's a grab bag. I think it's a smart writer who knows when s/he should look something up, and when a little glossing over the details is okay.

ETA: Before you wonder why I e-mail my husband, it's because we're not always on the same continent. Just thought I'd mention that, before folks get the wrong impression ... ;-)

Edited 2013-06-28 21:27 (UTC)

Oh, I love the Internet Movie Firearm Database! I have absolutely no experience with guns and that has been so helpful and enlightening for me on so many occasions already... And I can't wait to check out the other links :)

I write a lot of h/c, so I need medical facts. And since I'm not a doctor or medical practitioner I need to find those somewhere. (Watching e.r. for fifteen years only teaches you so much, right?) And if I can't ask someone who knows a lot about these things, I found http://doctorgrasshopper.wordpress.com/ really helpful. Awesome writing style and really great information.

I'm fairly well read and have seen a lot of Europe and the US, so I use first hand experience for a lot of settings. And well, do Lee Child books count as research material for Army proceedings, ways to kill people and general bamf-ery????

Generally I'd say the better your research, the easier for the reader to immerse themselves into your story. You don't have to use all the details you learned (I'd strongly suggest not to, but that's just me), but it'll give you a better sense of where and how things happen and will make it so much easier to write :)

One thing i have noticed in Avengers fiction, which is especially agregious in this day and age is the abuse of the tech McGuffin, and this is more a issue related to Tony and JARVIS. It probably only annoys me so much because I work in the tech sector, but Tony and JARVIS are apparently an unstoppable Skynet/Big Brother/scares the hell out of me that an asshole drunk has that much power. I mean he hacks everything, regardless of open/closed system, access, whatever. Despite the fact he clearly had to be invited onto the helicarrier in the movie to even get into SHIELD's systems. There are limits even in fiction, or at least a reasonable explanation needs to be forged for how Tony can hack SHIELD's database whenever he wants when he couldn't even stop Coulson from hacking JARVIS with a phone while stuck in an elevator.
The second point is more to the Hawkeye/Widow/SHIELD side of things, having been around some military and intelligence projects on the tech side, and even just from watching documentaries and what not, the talking over the comms or while on mission is completely unbelievable and incredibly casual/unsafe. No ever uses a call-sign (not code name), or the NATO alphabet, hell, no even ever says over to sign off or uses military slang. If someone were ever listening in, well, it's all out there in plain English. more writers should look to something like Generation Kill as a good example of proper field communication, rather than just have Coulson and Clint chatting away like they are sharing a beer with no regard for mission protocols.

Ooh very good points. What did you think of th communication at the end of the Avengers? Like Clint directing Tony, Steve and Nat, etc? Was that different bc they weren't in secret mission mode? I'm thinking some of the Clint-being-chatty on the comma comes from him being smart with Coulson in Thor and even in the Avengers, his "Nat, what are you doing?" was kinda ribbing her.

I tend to think of the communication at the end of the Avengers as kind of a unique situation, Clint has several people to deal with who don't follow proper protocol, wouldn't understand SOP. Rogers might, but he would be outdated, so it's easier to speak plain to Cap, Tony and Thor, rather than explain what A-O's, enfilades and defilades and choke points are on the fly. Or it's just bad writing.
I also always saw the comment in Thor to Coulson as more a dig at Coulson, because the first part of the exchange never gets mentioned with the "are you sending in more guys for him to beat up?" Especially if you read the comics that kind of fills in the behind the scenes action, Barton doesn't come off as Coulson's subordinate to me but rather Fury's handpicked guy saddled with a suit, he is the one who says they should cut Thor loose to tail him while Coulson wants to keep him locked up. I do think, he finds Phil somewhat amusing, but I don't get the vibe of camaraderie between them. This Hawkeye seems more Fury's beast to me, I mean the way they talk to each other at the beginning of the movie, it seems like Fury allows Clint a fair amount of slack.
The "what are you doing?" line, I think is kind of face value for me, it's shock. I think too much is read into it for a throwaway line in the middle of an otherworldly firefight where the guy is trying to process a thousand different things at once.

I've definitely learned a lot from fic, to the point where I've joined conversations with very obscure topics that puzzled my friends. "Where did you learn that?!"

"Uh..."

With military/tech stuff, I tend to take it with a grain of salt. I also don't mind if the author "fudges" details in this part of the story because focusing too much on realities, like radio chatter as Paul is pointing out below, just isn't as interesting a fic to me. One of the things you really have to keep in mind is your audience and your genre. If you're writing for hardcore military, then by all means, list specifications about the carbines and the weapons they're carrying. If you're not, you've got a little leeway. :)

(awww, baby Renner)

Yes, this is how I see Fury and Barton too... like he basically put Barton in charge of overseeing the tesseract, which was obviously a pretty major thing. I haven't read the comics but I read some stuff online (which of course may or may not have validity) early on about the Ultimates (I think JR mentioned the Hawkeye in the films is based more on the Ultimate Avengers) where Hawkeye and Fury had that sort of relationship. Of course in the films, Natasha also seems "close" to Fury, he put his arm around her briefly in IM2 and she and him were arguing with each other in the Avengers (of course that's with the spear making every agitated). But yeah, my impression is that Clint is pretty high up and both men respect each other...even more evidenced in the Avengers deleted scenes (Clint "missing" shooting Fury, Fury trying his damnedest to protect and get Clint back).

I will have to rewatch the scene with Natasha in the Avengers. I have only ever assumed he was slightly making fun of her (like the Budapest line), because of his delivery.

Haha, I remember reading online (I don't even think this was in a fic, but on Oh No They Didn't) about how Barton was checking his pulse point in Thor to have the perfect sniper shot and thinking "NO WAY" and googled it and apparently that is a real thing that snipers do.

Oh my goodness, I told my husband about maybe seeing baby Renner and he was laughing at his nutty wife. I was walking to get lunch up Santa Monica Blvd and there was this brown-haired lady pushing a newborn baby in a stroller...I actually paid attention because the stroller looked expensive and as a mom of a baby, these things are what I notice lol, and the baby had a little pink blanket. The mom looked young and in way better shape than I did after I had either of my girls and even then I was like "What if?" And then some time after that I saw a pic of the baby's stroller online and I'm pretty sure it was the same stroller. So yeah. I was actually going to say something to the woman (just because she was a new mom with a tiny baby) but when it occurred to me who it might be I just smiled at her instead.

Edited 2013-06-29 05:20 (UTC)

Well the media stuff related to the Avengers, (there were SHIELD files or something with the DVD box set, or maybe it was the website) had Barton saying he was handpicked/recruited by Fury himself.

As for the Ultimate universe, Fury grabbed up Clint out of military prison while he was serving a life sentence for murder. SHIELD started as Fury and Clint, and a bar tab, while they tried to take down the Soviet Union (and apparently crazy ass Hank Pym who was dreaming up flying aircraft carriers while wasted on tequila) and he was godfather to Clint's kids and his youngest daughter was named Nicole after Nick before Widow killed his family, which Fury took really hard. Fury pretty much sees Clint as his go to guy when he needs something done. Hunt down Captain America when he has gone off the reservation, quell a superhuman revolution in South East Asia, steal nukes from rogue state, game plan scenarios on the big board because Reed Richards has gone insane and taken over Europe: Call Hawkeye.

Hawkeye is his boy, because Hawkeye NEVER misses, even if all he has is some shards of glass, or is throwing punches or has to rip his own fingernails out to use as projectiles (him with a gun pretty much sends the bad guys into a panic).

So if Ultimateverse is the basis for this Clint, which most of the creative team at Marvel Studios has said, then yeah, him and Fury are tight.

When researching I usually start with google, and read as much as I can about a topic that interests me. Sometimes, when I have the time, I also borrow books in library. I also ask friends who might know more about what I need, or simply point me towards useful internet sites. I tend to apply the strategy that works best for the moment.

My own knowledge is pretty extensive in fields of psychology and psychological trauma, and my husband is a history nerd. That comes very handy too. :)

Wow, thanks for the google infographic link, so many useful tips! *g*

OMG. The Internet Firearms Movie Database is amazing. Thanks for that link!

I've researched many things extensively for fic. Coffee and wine come to mind first, as I know nothing of either and have used both a lot in Stargate fics. I've also researched the flight times from McMurdo AFB to many points, geography, and arcade games.

My own life makes medicine, basic military protocol, most sports, and sci-fi fan stuff things I don't need to research. ;)

I use no writing tool. Just me and a keyboard.

Oh, and when it was active, I found "English to English" a useful com for Britspeak, as I'm American. Mostly, though, I just use UK friends for that. I find it especially annoying when a British character says "chips" when he means "crisps," as I try to get my characters as close to canon as possible as a general rule. In the prose, you can say what you want, and I stick with American spelling to be consistent, but in dialogue, a character must speak how he or she speaks. Mitchell in Being Human wouldn't use "rubber gloves" when he means "Marigolds," and George doesn't "vacuum." He "Hoovers." ;)

PS: I adore Defiance. Please don't burst my bubble. *grin* And I'll keep my trap shut about how injections are given in the movies and on TV. Fair enough?

Edited 2013-06-29 14:55 (UTC)

Hahaha, I won't burst your bubble about Defiance. Just in one episode, they listed two St. Louis facts in a sentence to "ground" the story and I was like, "Wow, that was the laziest research I've ever seen." They talked about how a place had the "best toasted ravioli in St. Louis" and then also had great gooey butter cake, which to me screamed that they'd just looked up "common St. Louis foods." If you wanted to sound like you were from St. Louis, you'd say, "That place had the best toasted ravioli on the Hill." And St. Louis folks don't treat gooey butter cake as a gourmand. Most of us don't even know it was invented here. I did appreciate them trying, though I laughed at them. It's similar to your English to English example.

I wrote a Downton Abbey modern story, and I tried to stick to the same rules you did about Being Human, which meant constantly bugging my British friends on Twitter and getting the story Britpicked. That was a lot of fun. It's been awhile since I was in the HP fandom and had to do that.

The best thing about research for a fic is that you never know exactly what you're going to need to research at the beginning of the day. Or how you're going to end up on the NSA watchlist, looking up things like McMurdo AFB. ;)

No problem! Glad I could help! :)

You honestly never know what you're going to need when you start researching a fic. You say that it's unlikely that anybody would need to know anything about those topics, but hilariously, I wrote a fic last year that was set in the Caribbean, and I knew nothing about the place!

I definitely agree with you about well-researched stories. Sometimes if the author is a talented enough write, I can skim past the "didn't do the research" bit and enjoy the story, but an author that blends just the right amount of research/information into a well-plotted, nicely written piece is a gem and should be given all of the hugs.

Google is like the gateway drug into doing six hours of research, seriously. I've gone to google to look up one thing and eight hours later, I'm somewhere else completely. Oh, Google.

Definitely agree with you about not putting all of the research into your story. I listened to a Clive Cussler book on the way home from a family trip last week, and I wanted to punch the guy in the throat for all of the details he kept putting in the story (granted, that's partially the genre and I realize that I am likely not his target audience). There needs to be a balance. Yes, I know you spent three days researching this exclusive thing, author, but if it trips up your cadence or takes away from your story, swallow your lumps and don't put it in.

Thanks for the tip on the doctor grasshopper blog! I'm heading over to read it right now. You never know when you're going to need to read more about medical stuff in a story. (muhaha)

Definitely agree with you about the tombstone types of things when dealing with comics. I've read a few to get voices right for characters that aren't in the MCU, but man, there are so many comics with so many different representations, and I have no idea where they all fit in a line because timelines are a thing that don't exist in the Marvelverse.

Google Maps is a savior, you're completely right about that. I have connections to the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and have sent my acquaintance emails about maps and satellite imaging before (luckily, this person knows me well and isn't alarmed when I also bring up things about hiding bodies, though never in the same email). And all of that makes me think of this great Tumblr post (http://freaoscanlin.tumblr.com/post/53765651076/zyea-shrineart-seananmcguire) I saw floating around the internet last week.

I know just the episode you mean. I still appreciate the effort. ;)

And oh, the Harry Potter fandom and their jumpers. ;) I also write Sherlock, so...yeah. I actually write for a British magazine on occasion, and my Brit is pretty good, but I bug my friends, too. Shop versus store and such still trip me up sometimes. And a while back I had to decide if a 40-something man would use "stroppy." Friend's husband said he does, so I got to keep it. Yay!

Anyway. Have to run. Giggling about your NSA remark.

Ooooh yes. That's the peril of Google. It happened to me too :)

Yeees, definitely agreeing with you ladies on do your research damn well. Making stuff up usually comes back to bite you. I remember a fic (set in American civil war I think) where the author was spending more time and effort on describing clothes than telling the actual story. Uh, if you don't tell me how characters are affected by something, I really don't care about gloves and pettycoats.

Am SO with you guys on the excessive detail. When I had to re-read Moby Dick for an English lit course I actually cheated and got the abridged version, 'coz who needs to know all those minutiae about the 19th century whaling industry??

Sometimes, less is more. (QED: icon.)

Yeah, less often is more. /icon

Whoa. That's a lot of info on Ultimates I had no clue about -- thanks? I think? ;-) -- having only read half of one. But your explanation of the Fury/Clint relationship makes sense.

I picked up the Coulson-as-the-handler trope from some early fanfic I read, thinking it had to be canon. But it's perhaps (however vaguely) supported by the call to Natasha at the beginning of the movie, where there was a clear understanding on Coulson's part what "Barton's been compromised" would mean to Natasha, even as he plays a vid of the Abidjan mission in the background.

As for comms issues, clearly there's a distinction between covert and military ops. In full-fledged combat for example, like the battle of Manhattan, when the shit flies in real time, analysis isn't an issue. Covert or special forces ops are a different animal altogether, and I note that Natasha did NOT have a comms device on her during that "interrogation" -- Coulson had to use her "captors'" cell phone.

Good points on convenient lapses and abilities on the part of Tony Stark; but I figure that if I can suspend my disbelief high enough to buy Norse gods, aliens, space portals and cryogenics that works, I can squint through that one with ease.

Also, the Internet Movie Firearms database is one huuge weapons!p0rn fest. :D

Yes, it is, but man, is it interesting! And I really have no love for the things at all, but it's great as a research tool if you're writing something that has weapons in it and don't have the latest Lee Child book close by ;)

Wow it never occurred to me that "Nicole" was named after Nick. Very interesting!

I don't know what this gooey butter cake is that you speak of but I must try it at some point!

It's basically like eating cookie dough in a cake. Seriously, I love it.

Dude. Yes. I have pretty snug belief suspenders, and I barely notice it much of the time, but dude. Yes.

Coming to the party a bit late (literally and figuratively ::glancing at clock::), thought I'd toss in $.02.

I'm both former military and an archer, working on my first Clint/Tasha fic, based on my own headcanon for Clint in the MCU. I've basically taken what I know and mashed it together with a bit of fudge and come up with something I hope will be pretty sweet.

When I started out, I attempted to do a bit of research into the character histories and origins....right before I decided to toss it all out the window. Don't get me wrong -- I love comics. But what they do to the characters is more twisted than Loki and more brutal than Jim Butcher and Joss Whedon combined; I've given up on a lot of titles simply because I got tired of the BS. Thus, my total disregard of comic histories. (But I've still picked up Steed & Mrs Peel; The Fearless Defenders; and the new Batgirl. Glutton for punishment much?)

One area of research I go overboard on? Location. For the novel I've been hacking at for two years, I even went and scouted locations for my characters to live and set up their fictional businesses. If it's not somewhere local (or close by), I rely on Google Maps, guide books, the experiences of others, and sometimes travel message boards to get information. I *do* try to "write what I know" in this, but sometimes the story/muses dictate otherwise. =)

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ATTF: Research!

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