be_compromised | ATTF: To magic or not to magic

I don't think they are magical, though Natasha does have some mechanical alterations put in her by the people at the Red Room. With her it is partially advanced science. Clint is just that good though. He spent his whole life shooting arrows and when you spend your whole life doing something you get really good at it. His vision just happened to be a freak of nature as far as my head canon is concerned. Most of their skill comes from just that, skill and I find that to be a wonderful reason to like them. They don't need to be freakishly overpowered, they can work hard and run with gods.

I like the working hard aspect of their lives. I also think they try to keep in peak shape. What are your thoughts of their reactions to running with gods... does it make them work harder? Are they self-conscious about not having any powers?

I think they totally work harder because they are competing with gods. They have always had a lot expected of them, but this is a whole new level. I think that occasionally there would be doubts about whether or not they belong there, but always covered up. The only person who would see their doubts would be the other one of them since they are one of the few that can understand having to try so hard. Largely though I see them as being confident in their own abilities, they have to be as too much doubt would only slow them down.

As people have pointed out before, Clint and Natasha are the "Batmans" (normals) in a super-powered world, and thus I think magic is one of their weak points. Science they can understand to a degree, but magic? Still, I think Natasha would find a way to adapt to magical opponents much better than say, Tony Stark.

ETA: So I guess I see them interacting more with magic in AUs (Supernatural AUs, fantasy AUs and such). Either as magical creatures or as normals in a magic world, not so much as magic users. And the world always needs more SPN AUs, so if you've got something, go for it!

Edited 2013-03-22 21:56 (UTC)

Dude omg yes. I love the fantasy AU's so much.

The "Batmans" comment totally made me think of the conversation that Chandler and Phoebe have in an episode of Friends.

Phoebe: Hey. Why isn't it Spiderman? You know, like Goldman, Silverman.
Chandler: Because, it... it's not his last name.
Phoebe: It isn't?
Chandler: No. It's not like Phil Spiderman. He's a spider *man*. You know, like Goldman is a last name but there's no gold man.
Phoebe: Oh, oh okay...
Phoebe: There should be a gold man!

Well, my head canon has them be super-talented humans. Quite frankly, some athletes I've met fall into that category. as a fencer, I trained my ass off but being 5'4" put me at a natural disadvantage against some skinny 6-footer who was all reach and no target. Basically, you don't get to be the best in the world JUST by training hard -- there usually are some physiological advantages as well (look at the "wing span" on the top swimmers).

Maybe Natasha had some enhancements -- I like the quick-healing, something which I seem to have lucked into naturally :-) -- but her comment to Clint in the movie about "magic and monsters" certainly doesn't suggest that she lays claim to any of it herself. So, they're the best in the world naturally, and that allows them, as I'll be damned says, to run with Gods. Maybe they'll get out of breath a bit sooner (that scene of Natasha panting after the chase with the Hulk, and the one with Clint landing on his quiver, made that point beautifully) but they can keep up for a heck of a lot longer than most of us could.

Edited 2013-03-22 23:07 (UTC)

Those are really good examples about how "human" they are! I'd not thought of those.

And it stands to reason that SHIELD would look for The Best when they started recruiting.

Prompt: Natasha as a street magician! (whether in an AU, for fun or as undercover work)

Now that I think about it, Clint with his experience at the circus and Natasha with her experience as a spy would be very good at the performance/ sleight of hand aspect of “magic.”

They do both have experience that would make them good at close-up magic. Interesting! I'd never thought of that before!

Yeah, in my headcanon Natasha has a few enhancements thanks to the Red Room - accelerated healing, diminished sensitivity to pain, endurance... things that would come in handy for a secret agent/spy - but that's medicine/technology, not anything supernatural. And Clint... yeah, he's just that good :D

So you subscribe to the science side of the coin?

I also subscribe to the newsletter :D

(Okay that didn't make any sense. I'm in a pizza coma.)

No, no! I totally got it.

Of course, my pizza is still on the plate so maybe that's why! *grins*

I need moar pizza but I got distracted!

I finally went and got a soda to go with it. That'll take the coma out of the pizza!

I have root beer!

Just as good!

I tend to like the idea that Clint and Nat are both basically just human - pretty extraordinary humans, but still, lol. :)

I know that in comic canon, Nat was injected with a version of the same supersoldier serum as Captain America, and if memory serves, a friend of mine mentioned she's actually much older than she looks (I think the number was over 90, which, I have to say, made me... o_0.)

My movie head!canon is different. Nat seems fairly young to me - old as far as experience and hardship, but younger in other ways. If I contrast her with a character like Wolverine, who Hugh Jackman played with a wonderful mix of "old soul" and "grouchy old man" in a young body, and I just didn't get that vibe from the movie version of Natasha. (Though considering what I've heard of the next Captain America movie, I could very well be wrong. But I'm stubbornly clinging to my movie head!canon in the meantime.)

So, when I write Clint and Natasha, I try to hint that there is something different about them, but not quite so extraordinary as say, Hulk or Thor. Nothing overtly magical or scientifically enhanced. Clint and Nat are just...them, if that makes sense, lol. :)

As for prompts or ideas...I am a big fan of Outside POV fics, but there are so very few of them for Clint and Nat. I think this is a subject that's perfect for an Outside POV fic, though. It would be so much fun for someone (a reporter, maybe, or someone else somehow connected with the Avengers) to try to figure out what the secret is with the two "normal" Avengers. After all, they can't just be regular people can they?

Edited 2013-03-23 01:18 (UTC)

I may just have to do something with that idea of yours at the bottom ... :-) A news article/interview. Hmmm...

Really? *squees in delight at the thought, then tries to look dignified*

I would so love to read that. :)

I think a news article would be an awesome way to show that idea!

Well, I just posted a ficlet ... :-) See above.

Yes, there is a version of comic canon that has Natasha and Steve with similar ages, both of which are much older than their faces would lead people to believe. I wouldn't mind a bit of that super soldier serum if it made me look that good!

Lol, me neither!

can't remember offhand where I read it, but I'm SURE I remember reading an interview I read with Joss Whedon, where he outright says something about Black Widow being a regular human - meaning, whatever the comic canon, as of Avengers one, Natasha's a regular person.

As for the Winter Soldier? Well, he could have trained Natasha without her being enhanced, after all. (in MCU canon, at least, he's been affected by HYDRA, not the Red Room. Though I'd be interested to know what his blood type is, and whether it's universal donor or compatible with Natasha's.) If I remember right, in the original comics canon, Natasha was actually born in the 1920's, and given the treatments as a child in the red room, meaning it wasn't the 'super soldier serum' but a formula meant to produce similar results.

But otherwise, there's no reason why both Natasha and Clint couldn't be 'regular' humans, with their skills being explained by starting at a very young age, and constant practice now, combined with the whole using-them-to-stay alive part. I mean, look at some of the things the ninja were reliably reported as being able to do. (I don't mean in Naruto, either, I mean the real, historical Ninja) Has anyone read the Tales of the Otori books by Lian Hearn? The main character is a ninja, and can do stuff that makes Natasha and Clint look like amateurs - despite not starting until his early teens - although that's partly because he's a result of a breeding program run by his clan, and partly because he seems to be a natural physical prodigy (again, the breeding program).

As for Clint's sight... has anyone read the sebastian st cyr mysteries by CS Harris? The title character has yellow eyes, greatly enhanced senses (including having night-vision similar to a cat), and extraordinary reaction times. In all the books, there's an authour's note at the end that explains that sebastian's abilities are not some kind of sneaky-superhero thing; they're the result of a rare but genuine, scientifically documented strain of genetic mutation, which for some reason has been shown to nearly always occurr in people of pure Welsh descent... or of the Cherokee tribe of Native Americans.

(BTW, is 'native americans' the actual term that's supposed to be used now? Is there someone on the list who is a member of, or knows someone, who is a member of said subgroup of humanity who can tell me? Screw political correctness, I want to use the term that the actual people concerned would prefer.)

can't remember offhand where I read it, but I'm SURE I remember reading an interview I read with Joss Whedon, where he outright says something about Black Widow being a regular human - meaning, whatever the comic canon, as of Avengers one, Natasha's a regular person.

You just made my morning, lol. :)

As for the generic mutation, I think I might have heard about that somewhere...it sounds vaguely familiar. I could easily imagine Clint having something similar - a natural genetic variation that gives him an edge others don't have. (Is it just me, or in that scene when he's so focused on one of the Chitauri craft - the sequence with the arrow that melts the engine - do his eyes essentially turn completely white? I assume it's just the camera angle - and Jeremy Renner's intense look - but none-the-less, that shot catches me every time. It's the only scene where he doesn't quite look like a "normal" human. If I had more time this morning, I'd hunt down a cap of it.)

As for the preferred names for Native Americans, I'm sorry, I don't know. :-/ I have heard that "preferred terms" are changing for a number of groups, but I can't tell you what they are.

Edited 2013-03-23 15:20 (UTC)

That brings up an interesting idea... just because Joss said it an it's canon in the movies, does that mean that fanfic must adhere strictly to Natasha being only human? Is there no place for experimenting what having something more "other natural" might be like? Does it make it wrong to use science/magic?

There are people in real life who have insanely good vision. So, Clint's vision could be very real. Noticing details and remembering them when you aren't looking is something that can be trained, though some people have a better aptitude then others. On top of that he's just has the right body and smarts to be an awesome archer. Of course the whole firing backwards without looking stretches the reality envelope...

While Natasha was enhanced in the Comcs, in my head canon(at least with what I know so far,) she isn't in the movie versus. I imagine she's been trained and shaped since a young age to do what she did. I'm sure if you took an x-ray of her body, much like most athletes that start very young you'll see all the breaks fractures and bone callus from the life she's lead. She's going to be sooo sore with old age catches up.

Edit: Though I'm sure when Natasha was still with her previous employer she was on a cocktail of enhancement drugs.

Edited 2013-03-23 04:03 (UTC)

ATTF: To magic or not to magic

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