be_compromised | ATTF: R-Rated Movies in MCU?

Entry tags:

ATTF: R-Rated Movies in MCU?

This is a little off-topic but I thought that this would be a really interesting topic to discuss. So, members of this great bar, do you think that Marvel should also follow in Deadpool's footsteps and start to make R movies?

I personally loved Deadpool and had a great time watching the movie but some people who brought their young children to the movies were angry that it had a lot of bad words and stuff. Obviously, because it was R, that was to be expected but should superhero movies even be R when a good majority of the fanbase is younger than 17?

Also, feel free to talk about other MCU movies and think of this as a general movie discussion!

Things to remember:
1) Always label NSFW (Not Safe For Work) stuff in the title and post under a cut.
2) Fic and artwork needs to have a rating and warnings (or you can say that you’ve chosen not to use warnings).
3) For people with annoying internet connections, say in the title if a comment is graphic/images/gif-heavy and post picspams under a cut.
4) Have a damn good time! (Because if that’s not happening then this post has clearly failed.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I didn't watch "Deadpool" so I'm not sure about the Film Rating.

But if the movie is really violent and stuff then it's good that they'll choose R for the movie - although the majority of fanbase is younger than 17.

PS: May I ask how "young" they were?

the kids were about eight or nine.

Uhm, I can't believe the parents took them into the movie and that they were able to watch this. O.O (Last Christmas my niece had problems to get into "The Good Dinosaur" because he wasn't 6 [Film Rating in Germany].)

Again: I didn't watch "Deadpool" but I'm pretty sure this movie isn't for someone around 8 or 9. O.O

(Sorry about the rant. I'm just a bit shocked right now...)

As far as I'm aware, for a 12A in the UK kids can get in with a parent, because it's either a 12 or at the parent's discretion. For a 15 and up you're not supposed to be able to get in if you're not that age. However, someone is with their parents I think staff tend to turn a blind eye unless it's really, really obvious that the kid isn't that age.

What're cinema policies like elsewhere in the world? Do kids tend to get away with sneaking into higher ratings or tagging along with parents?

Leaving aside parenting choices in taking kids to high rated films, I think lower ratings make things more accessible to a wider audience - not just as an age thing, but even some adults don't want, or always want, graphic violence/sex/swearing. And the more people who see the film, the more money is made. And the more that gets invested in the franchise. (I'm not sure wide audience and money making can be separated for this.) I also think films shouldn't market merchandise etc to target audiences younger than those who can see the film - it's not fair to get kids excited for something they can't watch (let's leave the moral issues aside) - and it has to be taken into account that again that means less money made off the franchise.

I don't know the figures for the age ranges in the fandom, and are we talking for fandom as a whole or breaking it down into Avengers, X Men, individual characters? (How many kids read Deadpool comics or had heard of him before the film?)

I enjoyed Deadpool and I think what they did worked for the character. As times it was a bit too crude or below the belt, but then that's why Deadpool isn't a favourite of mine - i laughed more at Guardians. I think sometimes a lower rating makes writers have to be...sideways with their adult jokes, more innuendo than outright, and that works for my sense of humour. Like the Jackson Pollock joke in Guardians. And the X Men First Class films didn't just work with the restriction of one F word but used it for max impact. How about the 'language' joke in Age of Ultron? I don't feel I've lost anything in other films having a lower rating.

That said, I could see a place for higher rated films. I doubt Deadpool would have worked with a lower rating. Or - non-Marvel but - Kingsman. I've, alas, still not watched, but Daredevil and Jessica Jones? But would a higher rating suit all characters/of Marvel? Would you stick a 15 or R rating on many comics you've liked and would like to see as films/shows?

Hmm, I think I see this as a weighing up of tge accessibility - and marketing/money aspect - against suitability for the character/s.

Out of curiosity, what would people think about the rating for a Black Widow or Clint and Natasha film? What about a tv show of Clint and Kate in the style of Fraction and Aja's comic?

I would love it if Netflix came out with a version of Fraction's run. Also, have you seen the Hawkeye Fan Film that was put up on YT this week? It really captures the style the comic was in.

It would be so good :D

Ha, no I hadn't seen that, thanks for the link! "You can't just walk a dog away from your problems." = classic and even a bit from Lucky's POV!

I don't think there is a word in this with which I disagree. I saw Deadpool and kind of liked it, but the relentless dick jokes and gory violence got old pretty quickly. The whole thing started at 11 and never came down, and my ears were ringing when I came out (figuratively speaking). There's only so much crescendo I'm prepared to take; basically, I prefer adult writing to adult jokes.

I'd adore a Fraction!Aja run on Netflix or elsewhere, but if they do the same uber-violence that turned me off Daredevil, count me out. The series itself has some violence, but nothing horribly graphic, and the swearing is limited to the occasional "futz". So if it is to be R-rated, let it be for dialling those up to the original "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" version, and for that little Hawkeye mask to be removed from that scene were ... Well, you know.

I've never thought 'adult jokes' had to necessarily be rude. I always thought of them as the jokes that could be in any show or film, but went over kids' heads. The 'you'll get it when you're older' jokes. *shrugs*

I still need to finish watching season 1 of Daredevil and Jessica Jones, bah. I think The Walking Dead has made me more able to cope with graphic violence, but then I don't want that all the time. Like I have kept up with Agent Carter, because that's a gem :) A Fraction & Aja style Hawkeye show with futz and sign language and the goofy mess of life, oh that would be so good! With or without the mask *grins*.

Yeah I think that it'd honestly not fit the tone of what Marvel is doing with movies if they followed in the footsteps of Deadpool. They have their R rated material on Netflix.

But like if we were to get a Clintasha movie well let's just say I wouldn't mind if it were R ;P

Provided it's R for "proper" reasons, and not all that icky gory violence...

OH OF COURSE that's what the winkey face was for. I want dirty swearing and wall fucking.

I thought that's what you meant - I just needed to be absolutely, totally, utterly sure ...

Of course, like others have pointed out, the story doesn't need to be rated R, that's where fanfic comes in, but if they really wanted to go that way to follow the trend I would want a little more bang for my buck.

bang for my buck

Heee! I am 12. Also got stuck on the wall fucking comment prior... ;)

*raises hand* I would also be okay with higher rated extended editions for sexy times, just sayin'

I saw Deadpool and I think that it was really good that they had a more "mature" rating, they didn't shy away from anything, and because that's what Deadpool is all about-he really doesn't sugar coat things-and to have it at a lower rating just to make more money would be doing the character a disservice.

That being said, I think the higher rating only works for certain characters like Deadpool. ~~Also apparently Suicide Squad is hastily filming extra scenes for more humor because of Deadpool which shows that they're trying to capitalize on the movie's success~~

Personally I think that if Marvel ever gets around to a Natasha movie and they want to do it right it needs to be a higher rating because of the subject matter that an origin story like the Black Widow deals with. True you could push the envelope with a PG-13/whatever the international equivalent is, edging as close to an 'R' rating without crossing into it, but at the same time IMO it would take away from the character and do Natasha and the Red Room a disservice as a whole.

Edited 2016-04-09 03:06 (UTC)

I think the reshoots for Suicide Squad are in response to Batman vs Superman being too grimdark. And also because people loved the second trailer so much. I mean, I loved that second trailer and I have no interest in seeing the actual film. It was just really well done.

ETA: I genuinely think they don't need a higher rating if they ever get round to making a film about Natasha. Mainly because clever storytelling can cover a lot of ground and a 12A/PG13 spy thriller is very doable. Also, I don't think it would be doing Natasha a disservice because that implies that the most important things about her are those horrible things that we're not even sure happened to her in the MCU. She doesn't need a 15/R rating to be the best version of herself and you can easily imply bad things without explicitly stating them. Like Mad Max: Fury Road.

But also - from a non-storytelling POV - I think it would be a bad move simply because it would cut out a huge amount of the fanbase who, lets be honest, definitely deserve to see the Black Widow on screen.

Edited 2016-04-09 11:34 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm always in favour of implying rather than showing -- allowing room for the reader's imagination is much more effective storytelling in my book. Plus, we want all those little girls out there to have a badass Marvel heroine to balance against all the princesses. So, yeah. No R for the Black Widow, please!

Thirded - if we had more female led films it might not be so much of a problem, but with there being so few I think the wider an audience they can reach the better. Also implying rather than showing can be just as effective if not more so. After all, isn't that how the Clintasha ship sailed from Avengers? ;)

I do think it depends on the source comics. I really loved Deadpool, and like many people I know, I extra loved it because it didn't shy away from staying close to the comics and didn't defang them. Similarly, I also think that taking a PG-rated source comic and making it harsher and more violent, etc., in the movie adaption would also miss the mark.

And honestly, imo, the parents who let their young kids read or watch stuff like Deadpool are the problem here, not the movie or the comics themselves. You don't go to a slasher movie with your 11-year-old and expect them not to get freaked out, right? It's the same with adult-rated comics content. Just because it's comics doesn't mean it's for kids. It's on the parents to protect them from that content, not on the media to refrain from producing it.

Yeah I think a lot of the problem re: parents is the automatic assumption that if it's based on a comic, it's for kids. Or even, if it's a superhero narrative, it's for kids.

This is true. But it's also the promo people who put out the ads the kids see and then want. And it's REALLY hard to explain to your six year old that even though its a movie about his beloved superhero, no, you can't see this movie because it's way too above your level. (We've been having some issues with this on Batman vs. Superman.) I like that the Marvel movies have been at a lower rating because we can watch them and I can either do some explaining at the scarier parts (Hulk chasing Black Widow freaked him out) or fast forward on them.

This is something I find to be a big problem - marketing things at kids that they can't watch. My mum works at a Primary school, for kids aged 5-11, and a lot of them have chatted to her about their parents not letting them watch films that're aged 12 up, and yet they know about them because of the kids' lunch boxes, the toys, the hype, so they want to watch them, and that's not fair on the kids or their parents. This, I think, is where the money making goes too far.

YUP. I especially see that with Image comics, like people are all "but comics are for kids at me" and I feel like throwing them a few panels of Sex Criminals or Nailbiter.

Slightly off-topic, but I will never forget my 14-year-old kidlet stomping out of the family room during the ripped-off-arm scene in Jurassic Park, with the words, "What kind of parents are you, thinking this is okay for me to be watching??"

Yeah. My stepfather watched Nightmare on Elm Street with me when I was twelve and I had nightmares for weeks. As kids we don't get it but these warnings ARE there for a reason.

Short answer: no.

Long answer: Ratings for these kinds of films are... well, they depend on the source material. And the majority of Marvel comics are written for all ages. Deadpool works because what you're giving the rating for (violence/crude jokes) is what that character is famous for. It is an intrinsic part of his character. As such, to do that character justice, a higher rating is best. Very few Marvel characters need a higher rating to make their films 'good' or true to character. The character development is what is important and you don't need a 15/R rating to do that for most Marvel characters. The only other Marvel character that I think would need a higher rating to do them justice is The Punisher, because that character's is based around violence as well. Most of the time, a film isn't long enough to have both the elevated levels of violence AND the character development needed to make it a sound choice UNLESS the character is a naturally violent one. The reason the higher rating works for Marvel's Netflix titles is because they are longer. I don't think, if Jessica Jones or Daredevil were made into feature films (disregarding Ben Affleck Daredevil here) they would need to be 15/R films to get the point across. They aren't naturally 15/R rated characters. You can have the character development without the explicit violence. It would make those films different animals to the Netflix shows, but then again, film is different to TV, so that's understandable.

Like, you'd be hard pressed to do a Sex Criminals film on a 12A/PG13 rating, because the story revolves around sex. But a Black Widow or Hawkeye film could (imo) easily be done on a 12A/PG13 rating. Plus, you don't need a high rating to make things violent/unsettling/etc. I haven't seen it but apparently Batman vs Superman is very violent for a 12A/PG13 film. And the Studio Ghibli film Grave of the Fireflies is rated 12/PG and when my friend told me to watch it she said "If I would make all the world leaders watch one film it would be this one and there would be no more war. I think I cried more at this film than when my mum died."

Upping the rating doesn't automatically make it a better film. It works for Deadpool because of who Deadpool is. That doesn't necessarily mean it would work for their other characters. Plus, you know, Marvel have done eleven films on the 12A/PG13 rating. It would be a pretty big shift in tone if they changed now, and if Disney bought Marvel Studios for the young boy fanbase, they're not going to change it now.

This.

Yep, nodding along to all of this. And the thoughts about the difference between ratings for films vs tv shows considering their length, that's interesting and makes sense to me.

Anybody that knows Deadpool should know he's not a kiddie character. Duh

I feel like a lot of parents don't know Deadpool and figured that the R-rating was kind of a joke.

I think that if the parents don't read comics, aren't aware of comics, think comics are for kids, and then they see adverts and toys and things aimed at kids, and their kid comes home and asks to watch it... I'd like to think that parents would check why a film has the rating it has before taking kids to see it, even as I can why some parents - and maybe older siblings, other family members of what have you - would think it was okay. But yeah, people's parenting choices are their own, even if i'd like to think parents make informed choices.

I haven't seen Deadpool because I'm not a fan of the character (I understand why people like him, but the kind of humour which tends to feature in Deadpool comics isn't really my thing), but from what I've heard of the film, an R-rating is appropriate and parents should pay more attention to content advisory warnings.

I think R-rated comic book movies have their place, but I don't think an R-rating is an automatic indicator of quality. I remember a while back there were a couple of people on tumblr who were angry at the very thought that a hypothetical Black Widow movie could be given a lower rating than R, which I think is silly. You can tell a disturbing, dark story without a R-rating. Sometimes not showing things explicitly can be even more effective than having them front and centre.

Marvel may do R-rated movies one day, since the Netflix series are doing quite well. But in the end what motivates Marvel the most is money, and from that perspective it makes more sense to make a movie that can be seen by as wide an audience as possible, especially since that also means more potential for selling merchandise.

I think Marvel have already come out as saying that they're not planning to make 15/R rated films. Yes for the money, but I also think... to swap after eleven films would be a ridiculous change in overall tone.

But yes to not needing a 15/R rating to tell dark stories. Sometimes I think scary stories that can be seen by everyone are some of the very best.

User

lilacsigil referenced to your post from Volume 121, Issue 5 (http://comicstore-news.livejournal.com/699275.html) saying: [...] Discussion - posted discussion about R-rated movies in the MCU [...]

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

ATTF: R-Rated Movies in MCU?

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Volume 121, Issue 5