ext_26833 (![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
anuna-81.livejournal.com) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
be_compromised2012-10-26 05:17 pm
anuna-81.livejournal.com) wrote in be_compromised2012-10-26 05:17 pm
Entry tags:
All Things Friday: power and trust
So, I'll try to be as coherent as possible with this Friday's discussion - intro.
It's really amazing how "less is more" sometimes proves to be true. I've watched The Avengers at least ten times over the last few months and among several strong impressions the movie leaves me with each and every time, my favorite is the sense of connection between Hawkeye and Black Widow, aka, Natasha and Clint. Even though we don't see them interacting a lot (how much screentime does Clint have anyway? I read it's 13-ish minutes somewhere, but it feels longer) the director (we know you're brilliant, sir) made sure we don't miss the fact that these two people have miles and miles behind them, which they've crossed together.
While these two share a lot in common, I picked power and trust for today's discussion, and I'll try to keep this brief and somewhat coherent (it's not easy with ALL THE FEELS). One thing I love in my OTPs is the sense of equality. There is no doubt that both of them are powerful, in sense of things they can do, their skill set and the fact that they can hold the ground with four other superheroes, all of whom are somehow enhanced (while movie! Clint and Tasha are "ordinary humans".) One thing which I love (when I write or read about them) is when they're portrayed as equally matched (aka, both good and capable fighters, strong personalities, smart and resourceful people, but also flawed people, but I guess that's a whole different topic. I especially appreciate when fic authors don't write Clint as "weaker", less capable in physical fight in order to show how badass or strong Natasha is - they're both strong.) Power dynamics between equally matched partners is very interesting to discuss or write or read about. I've seen this portrayed in different ways, with one in the lead and the other following, one being in charge of one aspect of their lives and partnership while other handles other things. Or they shift the power between them in the way they see fit, or how the current mission requires it.
Which leads me to trust. They're not really designed to be trusting people, but that single scene they share in the movie simply screamed (mutual) trust. I'm always left with the feeling that Natasha, as scared after the Hulk - encounter as she was, didn't trust anyone else to go after Clint, and there can be many reasons. Clint is dangerous, even in his mind - controlled state (or especially while he was like that), and even more people could have been killed, but also, I like to think that she wanted to be the one who'll see if there is any Clint left in him. When he wakes up it doesn't take her long to decide it really is him now, and she unties him. There are lot of cues that subtly show the level of comfort between them (which implies trust) - from physical closeness and the fact that they briefly share a smile (and to me, it's an important clue, because they don't do this with other Avengers), to the fact that things don't have to be explained in detail. They obviously share a history, and probably secrets. As far as headcanons go (and I share most of mine with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
cybermathwitch who helped me out with this post so much!) - I like to think that they're each other's failsafe (and if one is gone beyond repair, the other will end their life), and that's, I suppose, the ultimate trust when it comes to people like them. But trust can (and does) expand to other areas of life and I love when it's explored, especially when it's a part of Natasha's reclaiming herself theme - for someone who couldn't rely on anyone, having a partner like Clint is a monumental thing, and I like to think that this mutual trust is the base of the loyalty we witness in Natasha, from the moment Coulson utters the famous words "Barton's been compromised".
Okay, enough of me! I can't possibly do this theme justice all on my own. The bar is open, share your thoughts, rec your favorite fics, discuss, flail, do the thing you do best - have fun! <3!
It's really amazing how "less is more" sometimes proves to be true. I've watched The Avengers at least ten times over the last few months and among several strong impressions the movie leaves me with each and every time, my favorite is the sense of connection between Hawkeye and Black Widow, aka, Natasha and Clint. Even though we don't see them interacting a lot (how much screentime does Clint have anyway? I read it's 13-ish minutes somewhere, but it feels longer) the director (we know you're brilliant, sir) made sure we don't miss the fact that these two people have miles and miles behind them, which they've crossed together.
While these two share a lot in common, I picked power and trust for today's discussion, and I'll try to keep this brief and somewhat coherent (it's not easy with ALL THE FEELS). One thing I love in my OTPs is the sense of equality. There is no doubt that both of them are powerful, in sense of things they can do, their skill set and the fact that they can hold the ground with four other superheroes, all of whom are somehow enhanced (while movie! Clint and Tasha are "ordinary humans".) One thing which I love (when I write or read about them) is when they're portrayed as equally matched (aka, both good and capable fighters, strong personalities, smart and resourceful people, but also flawed people, but I guess that's a whole different topic. I especially appreciate when fic authors don't write Clint as "weaker", less capable in physical fight in order to show how badass or strong Natasha is - they're both strong.) Power dynamics between equally matched partners is very interesting to discuss or write or read about. I've seen this portrayed in different ways, with one in the lead and the other following, one being in charge of one aspect of their lives and partnership while other handles other things. Or they shift the power between them in the way they see fit, or how the current mission requires it.
Which leads me to trust. They're not really designed to be trusting people, but that single scene they share in the movie simply screamed (mutual) trust. I'm always left with the feeling that Natasha, as scared after the Hulk - encounter as she was, didn't trust anyone else to go after Clint, and there can be many reasons. Clint is dangerous, even in his mind - controlled state (or especially while he was like that), and even more people could have been killed, but also, I like to think that she wanted to be the one who'll see if there is any Clint left in him. When he wakes up it doesn't take her long to decide it really is him now, and she unties him. There are lot of cues that subtly show the level of comfort between them (which implies trust) - from physical closeness and the fact that they briefly share a smile (and to me, it's an important clue, because they don't do this with other Avengers), to the fact that things don't have to be explained in detail. They obviously share a history, and probably secrets. As far as headcanons go (and I share most of mine with
cybermathwitch who helped me out with this post so much!) - I like to think that they're each other's failsafe (and if one is gone beyond repair, the other will end their life), and that's, I suppose, the ultimate trust when it comes to people like them. But trust can (and does) expand to other areas of life and I love when it's explored, especially when it's a part of Natasha's reclaiming herself theme - for someone who couldn't rely on anyone, having a partner like Clint is a monumental thing, and I like to think that this mutual trust is the base of the loyalty we witness in Natasha, from the moment Coulson utters the famous words "Barton's been compromised". Okay, enough of me! I can't possibly do this theme justice all on my own. The bar is open, share your thoughts, rec your favorite fics, discuss, flail, do the thing you do best - have fun! <3!
no subject
So, my notes on Trust in their entirety (as discussion points or fic/creative prompts or whatever!)
Trust: - watching each other's backs
- partners/working undercover
- for instance knowing that even if one of them changes gears or does something "off" on a mission, trusting the other person that there's a reason for it and going along with it.
Another example I find really powerful that cropped up almost accidentally in the fic I'm finishing where they thought she was dead? The idea that an Agent would have to be in the crowd to shoot her (in a non-fatal way) in order to fake her death, and she'd wanted it to be Clint because she trusted him and his abilities. So... that kind of thing, or situations where, say, someone is holding her and she has complete trust that Clint could shoot that person w/o hitting her and he has complete trust that she wont' move so he *can* line the shot up, that kind of thing.)
- of course there's trusting one another with each other's secrets
- and my personal favorite, trusting that they are willing and able to be one another's fail-safes.
My real intrigue with the trust angle, is figuring out *why* they come to trust one another to that point. I think at least part of it has to do with skill level - they're both way beyond average in a lot of skill categories - it's not just that (for instance) she knows that he's *willing* to take her out if she loses it, it's that she knows he *can*. And they can trust things like him being able to make a shot, or him being able to trust that she can do (whatever is required in a particular instance) because he knows she's that good. But what else? What makes him the one she's willing to give up her secrets to? That she's willing to be vulnerable to and with?
no subject
I know we've discussed this over and over, and I can never have enough of this discussion - for me it's heartbreaking that this option even exists (that either of them might lose it); but I think it's incredibly important for both of them that the other is perfectly capable of taking them out. I think that's also ultimate love - I won't let you turn into your own worst nightmare, I won't allow you to do damage and kill innocent people (basically, I will be able to let you go, because I know that's what you would choose.)
When it comes to how this trust was built in the first place - we don't have a backstory, but mostly the general idea (he was sent to kill her and for some reason he made a different call), so I'm running on my own (and yours, and those of other people) headcanon(s); I think he is the one to make the first step in that direction, show some form of honesty to her, and also, that he isn't afraid of her. That he sees her like a person, and not one of her roles. In training, for example, he isn't afraid to challenge her, intelectually, emotionally or physically, and I think she responds to that. As someone said, he offers the stability to her and in wake of that stability and grounded-ness she is safe to redefine herself; and that prompts trust and loyalty on her part.
LONG STORY SHORT - FEELS, I HAS THEM.
no subject
no subject
I think their secrets come a little at a time, dropped in conversations and offered up in give-and-take but only in small bits and pieces. They wait and see, especially at first, to see if those secrets are compromised in anyway. When it isn't, another is offered up.
no subject
no subject