inkvoices (
inkvoices) wrote in
be_compromised2012-11-02 06:56 pm
Entry tags:
All The Things Friday: Popular Culture
Welcome to another All The Things Friday! Popular culture is usually something that people discuss in terms of Steve or Thor, specifically their lack of recent pop culture knowledge, but I find it interesting that when it comes to Clint and Natasha every fic I’ve read seems to have a different take.
For example, there are fics where the Avengers have film nights and Natasha doesn’t recognise the films, or she likes black and white movies, or she likes to correct the moves in martial arts films, or she likes musicals, or… When it comes to Clint and music we’ve had great discussions over what music he likes and if he can play the guitar, but then sometimes Natasha recognises the music, sometimes she doesn’t, sometimes she likes it, and sometimes she prefers classical. And so on.
What books, films, television shows, music, etc. do you think our Master Assassins like? Does Natasha like American pop culture, Russian pop culture, or hate pop culture, or hate aspects of pop culture? Was she familiar with American pop culture from her early training, or did she miss out as a kid and she doesn’t care, or she missed out and Clint teaches her? Is she more international in her pop culture tastes? Does she even see the point of pop culture?
What about Clint? If there’s any pattern that I’ve seen it’s that Clint is the more knowledgeable of the two about American pop culture at least, but at the same time SHIELD is often depicted as sending him all over the globe. Has he picked up on international pop culture himself? Has he missed out on pop culture whilst he’s been busy at SHIELD or whilst he may have been out of the country in the Armed Forces or what have you in the past? Does he care about pop culture, or not care, or care about some aspects in particular?
I have a lot of questions, folks, and no answers, just lots of ideas, because I love that all of these and more can be true considering the little that we know about Clint and Natasha from the films. So bring your thinky thoughts, your recs of creative things in which pop culture is a thing, your graphics, new fics or fic ideas, all of the things! Or just grab a drink, settle in, and have a happy Friday :D
For example, there are fics where the Avengers have film nights and Natasha doesn’t recognise the films, or she likes black and white movies, or she likes to correct the moves in martial arts films, or she likes musicals, or… When it comes to Clint and music we’ve had great discussions over what music he likes and if he can play the guitar, but then sometimes Natasha recognises the music, sometimes she doesn’t, sometimes she likes it, and sometimes she prefers classical. And so on.
What books, films, television shows, music, etc. do you think our Master Assassins like? Does Natasha like American pop culture, Russian pop culture, or hate pop culture, or hate aspects of pop culture? Was she familiar with American pop culture from her early training, or did she miss out as a kid and she doesn’t care, or she missed out and Clint teaches her? Is she more international in her pop culture tastes? Does she even see the point of pop culture?
What about Clint? If there’s any pattern that I’ve seen it’s that Clint is the more knowledgeable of the two about American pop culture at least, but at the same time SHIELD is often depicted as sending him all over the globe. Has he picked up on international pop culture himself? Has he missed out on pop culture whilst he’s been busy at SHIELD or whilst he may have been out of the country in the Armed Forces or what have you in the past? Does he care about pop culture, or not care, or care about some aspects in particular?
I have a lot of questions, folks, and no answers, just lots of ideas, because I love that all of these and more can be true considering the little that we know about Clint and Natasha from the films. So bring your thinky thoughts, your recs of creative things in which pop culture is a thing, your graphics, new fics or fic ideas, all of the things! Or just grab a drink, settle in, and have a happy Friday :D
some thoughts and recs to start things off
Clint I’m less sure of. I think that he knows a fair amount of American pop culture, but he keeps missing things when he’s out of the country and isn’t really bothered about catching up. And I think he knows more international pop culture things than he lets on, if only because he helped Natasha explore new things.
(And on a completely suppositional front, I’m amused by the idea of a team film night where Natasha puts on something subtitled and really art-house, or something off the beaten track, and the team are all ‘what the hell?!’ apart from Clint, who’s all ‘oh, not this one again’ or ‘I still think this Director is rubbish’.)
Recs
the radio plays just the perfect song by
The Exchange by
By Lufu on tumblr, where the caption is Here you have Clint showing Natasha some of the best songs in the world. Coulson thinks otherwise.
Re: some thoughts and recs to start things off
Clint I guess is more of a conundrum. He spent his most formative years in the circus (as per comic canon), and having no money and not a lot of free time, he wouldn't have been able to go to the movies a lot or buy tapes. I think it would be the same as with Natasha, once he is with SHIELD, he would start to absorb everything and find out what he likes. My take on him is that he is more the classic rock type, as that would have been the music played in his home as a kid and probably also by the guys in the circus. Like you, I don't think he would be bothered to keep up to date on American music or movies, pretty much useless when he is travelling all over the world :) I totally second that he would know more about international pop culture than we would expect, owing to his travelling the world. However, he would mostly be spending his time there somewhere in a sniper's nest, quite removed from the populace, so he would not necessarily have that easy access to foreign movies or music...
And the movie night with arthouse films and everyone being startled by our assassins being arthouse buffs - brilliant! I need this fic in my life!!! ;)
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(Also that comic is adorbs.)
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I think Natasha is well educated in all things, because her, ahem, previous job required her to be, and she is familiar with American pop culture (and obviously Russian), but I think she also read classics and watched (and learned to dance) ballet - she knows many things. What I think is more interesting, when it comes to her (and I share this headcanon with
As for Clint, well I am shameless and when I write him I just hand him my own musical taste (lots of old school rock and country music, and good guitar players, and yes he can play guitar. he can also sing, thank you mister Renner.) I say shamelessly, because Clint is probably the first character with whom some of my favorite songs and artists seem to fit just right. He likes movies, all kinds of movies, and while rest of the boys think he's big into action stuff, Natasha knows that he enjoys dramas and things that give you questions and thinky thoughts.
I shall proceed to be shameless; while I always write musical!Clint (in my head it's just part of him), I referenced his taste in more detail in Li.ber.tas (http://head-on-home.livejournal.com/12957.html) (it was written for the promptathon).
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I enjoy all the headcanons of Clint And Guitar :D I think I'm not comfortable enough with country music and old rock to assign those to him for fear of stumbling when it comes to write what you know, but yes.
Seconding fic rec! If that helps to make it less shameless, heehee. But seriously, GOOD FIC.
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Because of the write what you know unspoken rule, I almost always pick the same references. Like I've read a lot of fics that have country music as a thing for him--- I would have him as a rock fan which is more to my liking.
Personally I've always felt that everyone likes some kind of classical music, I mean it's everywhere how can you not? People that maybe don't like the slow things like music similar to Die Walkürie (and if they can get past the racist thing that too) but usually no one can go wrong assuming some character likes classical music regardless of the person or their history.
I prefer some international variety but at the root out of it if I ever reference tv in a fic it's almost always American on the basis, they do it better than everyone else (though I'm partial to the British personally).
As for pop culture, once upon a time high culture basically was the forefront of the world but pop culture has become culture in a way that can't be ignored because tradition has been molded and shaped so much that it's almost undefinable. Therefore, it's like impossible to escape any reading these days without some kind of reference to something deemed pop culture. So every character I'm sure to some extent even Thor has it just differently.
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Hmm, I think that Natasha would have some knowledge of pop culture to be able to play her marks, understand intell, etc in her work and that culture like classical music, long lived and established culture (if that's what I mean, but yeah) would be great things for that.
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Moar recs!
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HOLD TIGHT EVERYONE
Pop culture is one of the most reliable ways to take the temperature of a society. Look, for example, at the recent resurgence of zombies and vampires and human-like monsters. The last time we saw this many human-shaped monster movies? It was the heart of the Cold War, and we were afraid of our neighbors. Now, the narrative has shifted more towards the I Am Legend/Walking Dead side. Because back then we could communicate with our monsters (remember: Omega Man and I Am Legend have the same source, but one has Monsters who chill out and talk to Chuck Heston, the other has screamy zombiemonsterthings) and now we have lost our ability to even speak the same language as our assailants - as terrorists - and we have no way to get them to communicate with us. (One day my dissertation will be on Cold War Science Fiction and the Social Climate of America, but not today.)
So if Natasha is going to successfully infiltrate a society, like she does in IM2, she has to be up on the pop culture enough to a) know what it MEANS to the people there and b)get the references. I'm sure SHIELD briefs her on it, but she doesn't learn it because it's fun.
Clint, I think, knows the Big Stuff - Wizard of Oz, Elvis, that kind of thing. I don't think if he and someone his age sat down, they'd both have fond memories of Howdy Doody, because Clint is an orphan and a runaway. He didn't have TIM for pop culture when he was little, he was too busy surviving.
They're probably also not really casual TV watchers, because they have Other Things To Do, but in my head canon, Clint LOVES bridal shows because he likes the idea of extravagance, and Natasha loves survival wilderness shows because she knows she could do it SO MUCH BETTER.
I think of them both as News Radio listeners, when they listen to the radio, because they HAVE to stay up on current events for their jobs.
I just don't see C/N as leisure types - neither one of them is likely to unwind without being made to, and when they do, I imagine they do a lot of reading.
But that's me, and I'm a little strange.
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in my head canon, Clint LOVES bridal shows because he likes the idea of extravagance, and Natasha loves survival wilderness shows because she knows she could do it SO MUCH BETTER. My mind immediately leaped here to: because Clint never had much and loves looking at all the things that their can be, even if his lifestyle still means having that kind of stuff would be pointless, and because Natasha likes to know that she's better, not in a nasty way, just an accomplished kind of like people laugh at people they (think) they know better than on reality shows type of way?
I think of them both as News Radio listeners, when they listen to the radio, because they HAVE to stay up on current events for their jobs. Hmm, do you think thye have an ongoing challenge/bet to see who can figure out where they're going to be sent first? Heh.
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For other stuff, I don't see either of them as a pop-culture junkie, or that they check TMZ all the time. They probably view pop culture as trivial. That said, they probably have interesting holes in their pop culture knowledge. Like, there's probably an ongoing thing where they've caught some really, really random stuff on hotel TV sets and given their own skillsets, have near photographic memories about retaining that sort of thing. Or they've caught a lot of avant-garde cinema because a good place to make drops are cheap, dollar movie theaters. I love details like those.
One fic has Natasha having a secret passion for Spanish telenovas, which amuses me greatly.
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That would be an interesting fic. Five things Natasha or Clint picked up while making drops.
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Natasha reads Lord of the Rings in Congratulations on Your Birthday by Ashen_key http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8236790/1/Congratulations-on-Your-Birthday which is where my headcanon started.
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Sorry, that's the favourite fic of Nat's I've done, so, yaaaaaaaay.
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But Clint...didn't really help with sorting out her tastes. My Natasha spent seven years between the Red Room and SHIELD - she did a lot of working out what she does and does not like by herself (as her library in her Swedish cabin can attest), so by the time they were hang out post him recruiting her (or her recruiting herself via him, as was closer to the mark) they already had a love of bad action movies, and so they bonded over that (also coffee, and paperwork. All of the paperwork).
Clint himself is harder for me, and not nearly as eclectic. He's a Louis L'Amour kind of guy, lots of Western music (which Natasha, the heathen, claimed to know nothing about in knowing that your door is always open, so he's been educating her with both cds and his guitar. Occasionally there are duets, because it is sinking it. Also, both of them have gorgeous voices and I like them signing together) He watched a lot of TV when he was medically discharged from the Army, but not so much since with SHIELD (and not so much pre-Army, either, due to circus). Has seen the X-Files, though, that much I know.
But of the two, Natasha knows more modern pop-culture, although it bleeds over once they start living together.
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And I love the radio plays the perfect song - recced it above myself :D For the record, her ipod is called Scheherazade. <3
My Natasha spent seven years between the Red Room and SHIELD Again, I don't have fixed headcanon on this, but since we technically know the ages of the characters from the extra info and it's the same as the actors this makes sense. I just for some reason keep drifting into thinking that when they met Natasha was younger and hadn't been on her own long at all, if at all (and if she was on her own she was following the old patterns, but they were degrading). I don't know why. I read all things, just, that's the way my brain keeps floating *shrugs*. I absolutely like the idea though that she stood alone, reclaimed/remade herself. (When I think of Clint helping I think more in terms of him prodding her, or dropping by with things for her to try, rather than him dragging her into pop culture liking land by her boot straps anyway.)
SHIELD + paperwork = OTP ;D
Yeah, I don't see Clint as really caring for pop culture. Maybe because I don't see him as materialistic or possessive? So not owning huge amounts of DVDs or getting attatched to things when he's always going to be moving and won't be able to keep up with them, just picking up on things as he goes and being all 'yeah, liked that' calm.
Any particular reason for the X-Files?
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THOUGH my favourite mention of LotR in an Avengers fic is actually The Stories That Stay With You by TLvop on AO3.
"In the end, stories are about the people in them --personalities and relationships resonate across cultures and worlds. Or: Thor reads Lord of the Rings, and tries to use it to process his past and present, and as a framework to hope for the future."
One thing I think is that Clint and Nat would be better versed in film and books than they would be in TV. TV is harder to keep up with then you're galavanting around the world being awesome. As to music, I am a firm believer in Nat knowing most about classical/orchestral music - operas and ballets. Clint I always see as being into classic rock and country, but I have no particular reason for that, just jumping on everyone elses bandwagon.
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just jumping on everyone elses bandwagon. I call it being persuaded into headcanon, heehee. Although it can get to the point where you suddenly stop and think 'is X a thing at all in any canon, or is that fandom headcanon' and realise that you don't actually know the answer and that's mind bendy :D
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I generally run with Natasha being more into books, etc., taking off from ashen_key's headcanon of Natasha having a cabin in rural-tastic sweden where she hid out in her professional years and still does so occasionally, so books are one of the few sources of entertainment. Along with Iron Chef. Because Iron Chef is awesome, and also kind of hilarious. She enjoys silly action movies with Clint, but that started as a Clint thing.
Clint is more of a film dude, though from the start I've had him reading Louis L'amour (he grew up with old bent dimestore copies and leftovers from others in the circus) because Clint reminds me of an older version of my brother in many ways and my brother has a comfort-reading thing with the l'amour books and we own ... a lot so research is pretty easy. But with regards to film I think he has seen an incomplete amount of disney films (enjoyable for when you can't really handle realistic violence), and lots of stupid action movies.eta: silly action movies include lots of silly sci-fi action movies; he also got addicted to the X-files just post-military while he was recovering from his ear-injury and despite being pretty bad at keeping up with TV shows, he was a semi-regular fan (caught it when he could).
>.> In my head, lovingly-mocking stupid action movies is one of nat and clint's favorite hobbies.
OKAY I PROMISE THAT WAS THE LAST EDIT
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My personal head canon has Clint wanting to catch up on the education he never got, to get past that "oh he's just a carnie" thing that I see coming at him, in particular from the ever-supercilious Maria Hill. I don't think he'd be wasting his time on airport books or paperbacks.
So when he sits on stakeouts, he'll be reading Shakespeare and the occasional Russian novel (mostly to understand Natasha a bit better) but getting pissed off with the latter 'coz, WHEN WILL THEY EVER GET TO THE POINT, can't they just DIE ALREADY?? Plus, he'd be devouring books on military history and strategy, and on politics/culture in the countries he gets sent to. As the guy who sees better from a distance, he'd be wanting to have the Big Picture for every op he gets sent on. Time and Newsweek, definitely.
As for Natasha -- I see her still acquiring a taste/habit for reading; it wouldn't have been encouraged in the Red Room (my goodness -- it could give you ideas!); she might pick up a chick lit paperback in an airport to pass the time and then go through it in kind of a morbid fascination about the kind of crap some women seem to be interested in ... ;-) Magazines, to get ideas about how to fulfil all those male fantasies when she's on the job. Vogue would be, like, a manual for her.
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I've been thinking about joining in discussions, etc. here, but after all the lovely business above, I think I'm kind of intimidated. Oh, and late to the party.
Not that either of those things will stop me. :-)
I get the impression that if Natasha listens to music at all, it's either mellow, moody music or absolutely horrible, over the top EuroPop. If the latter, it's mostly to annoy the piss out of Clint (who I think probably doesn't listen to anything, even if classic rock helps me write him).
Also, hello!
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Another bit of headcanon.
In one fic I had them practice dancing for missions, in other he danced with her whenever she was feeling distressed, in third they danced (tango) when they first met (and he told her he had no wish to kill her). I think dance can be a good metaphor for their dynamic. To me, they are tango, if I had to pick a dance that represents them, and Natasha on her own is flamenco, because I see all of that intensity and passion to live and survive wrapped in her. Clint, he is more like a slow guitar tune that only sounds simple - actually, to me he is this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh2GFoDae8Y) - but he adapts well and if Natasha needs a dancing partner, for purposes of mission or simply for comfort, he's there.
Also, I blame my dancing headcanons largely on this picture:
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