Like I said, I love all the possibilities and combinations, but at the moment (before you all change my mind!) for me the most realistic scenario is that Natasha learnt/learns enough pop culture necessary for her job, for blending in and being able to understand her marks, then when she joins SHIELD she learns a bit more American pop culture so that she knows more about the people now around her, but that it’s not until she starts to reclaim herself that she starts to think about and discover what she likes, and that Clint enthusiastically helps with that discovery.

Clint I’m less sure of. I think that he knows a fair amount of American pop culture, but he keeps missing things when he’s out of the country and isn’t really bothered about catching up. And I think he knows more international pop culture things than he lets on, if only because he helped Natasha explore new things.

(And on a completely suppositional front, I’m amused by the idea of a team film night where Natasha puts on something subtitled and really art-house, or something off the beaten track, and the team are all ‘what the hell?!’ apart from Clint, who’s all ‘oh, not this one again’ or ‘I still think this Director is rubbish’.)

Recs

the radio plays just the perfect song by dictator_duck/TLvop (Teen and Up, minor character death, 5324 words) This is actually a Darcy centric story, but with scenes from Clint’s point of view and with Clint/Natasha, through which we learn about Natasha’s tastes in music, amongst other things. It is fantastic for many, many reasons, but for the purposes of today go read the fantastic that is the Great iPod Quest.

The Exchange by SLynn (also on ff.net here) (Teen and Up, 5630 words) This is the one with Clint and books, and the team and books. Summary: Clint has his own system that allows him to get new reading material without actually having to keep any of it. Mostly, it works. Until it doesn't.




By Lufu on tumblr, where the caption is Here you have Clint showing Natasha some of the best songs in the world. Coulson thinks otherwise.

Edited 2012-11-02 07:00 pm (UTC)

I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding Natasha. I would like to think that Natasha would actually know quite a lot about pop culture, international and American, especially current movies and music. She has to get close to her marks, so that would necessitate small talk. I kinda picture her as a Renaissance woman, you know, she has to know a little about a lot of things, just enough to make her dangerous (shamelessly quoting Supernatural here). Thus she would know all kinds of music, but I would also agree that she probably won't really give thought to what SHE likes until she is with SHIELD and has a safe haven to explore herself.

Clint I guess is more of a conundrum. He spent his most formative years in the circus (as per comic canon), and having no money and not a lot of free time, he wouldn't have been able to go to the movies a lot or buy tapes. I think it would be the same as with Natasha, once he is with SHIELD, he would start to absorb everything and find out what he likes. My take on him is that he is more the classic rock type, as that would have been the music played in his home as a kid and probably also by the guys in the circus. Like you, I don't think he would be bothered to keep up to date on American music or movies, pretty much useless when he is travelling all over the world :) I totally second that he would know more about international pop culture than we would expect, owing to his travelling the world. However, he would mostly be spending his time there somewhere in a sniper's nest, quite removed from the populace, so he would not necessarily have that easy access to foreign movies or music...

And the movie night with arthouse films and everyone being startled by our assassins being arthouse buffs - brilliant! I need this fic in my life!!! ;)

♥. Thank you, :).

(Also that comic is adorbs.)

HEADCANON ACCEPTED. LOL

rofl. Best head canon.

Dead from laughing sooooo hard :D

Bwahahaha! I can just see someone trying to tease her about this...no wait, that would be stupid, they'd have found it and be laughing about it and linking Natasha to it and she'd find out and smack them down. All would be well. But then she'd have it stuck in her head and like you say, keep humming it and hating herself for it. And every time she does the people who were joking about it panic in fear LOL.

OOOOOOH. EXCITING THEME IS EXCITING.

I think Natasha is well educated in all things, because her, ahem, previous job required her to be, and she is familiar with American pop culture (and obviously Russian), but I think she also read classics and watched (and learned to dance) ballet - she knows many things. What I think is more interesting, when it comes to her (and I share this headcanon with cybermathwitch - she didn't really develop a preference that is her own. I imagine RR put more effort into making her (and other girls) adaptable little dolls that could pull on different faces, be familiar with different things and then kill when it's needed. The less personality she had, the less preference, the easier for them to manipulate who she should be for next occasion. When she gets out of that, frees herself from RR's clutches she starts to explore all those things on her own, and her personal taste is a mixed bag. Clint enjoys introducing her with new things, or at least prodding her and nudging her gently into direction of forming her own preferences.

As for Clint, well I am shameless and when I write him I just hand him my own musical taste (lots of old school rock and country music, and good guitar players, and yes he can play guitar. he can also sing, thank you mister Renner.) I say shamelessly, because Clint is probably the first character with whom some of my favorite songs and artists seem to fit just right. He likes movies, all kinds of movies, and while rest of the boys think he's big into action stuff, Natasha knows that he enjoys dramas and things that give you questions and thinky thoughts.

I shall proceed to be shameless; while I always write musical!Clint (in my head it's just part of him), I referenced his taste in more detail in Li.ber.tas (http://head-on-home.livejournal.com/12957.html) (it was written for the promptathon).

Yep, yep, yep :D I love the idea of learning what she likes in all things being a part of finding out who she is, or reclaiming/remaking herself. I see her as keeping up with everything, like pop culture is another tool, and then having a seperate thing of 'things I like'.

I enjoy all the headcanons of Clint And Guitar :D I think I'm not comfortable enough with country music and old rock to assign those to him for fear of stumbling when it comes to write what you know, but yes.

Seconding fic rec! If that helps to make it less shameless, heehee. But seriously, GOOD FIC.

I think like all things people base these off what they themselves like while imaging what characters like.

Because of the write what you know unspoken rule, I almost always pick the same references. Like I've read a lot of fics that have country music as a thing for him--- I would have him as a rock fan which is more to my liking.

Personally I've always felt that everyone likes some kind of classical music, I mean it's everywhere how can you not? People that maybe don't like the slow things like music similar to Die Walkürie (and if they can get past the racist thing that too) but usually no one can go wrong assuming some character likes classical music regardless of the person or their history.

I prefer some international variety but at the root out of it if I ever reference tv in a fic it's almost always American on the basis, they do it better than everyone else (though I'm partial to the British personally).

As for pop culture, once upon a time high culture basically was the forefront of the world but pop culture has become culture in a way that can't be ignored because tradition has been molded and shaped so much that it's almost undefinable. Therefore, it's like impossible to escape any reading these days without some kind of reference to something deemed pop culture. So every character I'm sure to some extent even Thor has it just differently.

I remember reading something about writers and worrying about putting too many pop culture references in that might be forgotten in the future, meaning that then their writing wouldn't be understood or seem dated, but that without those references they worried that their work wouldn't be situated. Then it went on to say that in Buffy The Vampire Slayer instead of using pop culture and slang Joss Whedon kind of made up his own, which then caught on. (Something like that anyway.) Like you say, it's difficult to escape pop culture though. (Especially with Tony Stark around!)

Hmm, I think that Natasha would have some knowledge of pop culture to be able to play her marks, understand intell, etc in her work and that culture like classical music, long lived and established culture (if that's what I mean, but yeah) would be great things for that.

I loved frea_o's story called The woman in the crosshairs (http://frea-o.livejournal.com/7195.html) in which Clint acquires a new hobby and Natasha isn't curious... until she becomes very curious. It is connected with popular culture, but I won't tell you in which way, because it would spoil half of the fun. The story is great, the writing is wonderful, Frea has such fun style and good grasp on characters, and this reads like something you can actually see happening (in your head and on screen). go. read!!!

Edited 2012-11-02 09:04 pm (UTC)

Hahahahaha, I JUST commented about how I'm writing the other half of that story below, anuna! Thanks for the rec!!!!

OKAY I HAVE POP CULTURE FEELINGS
HOLD TIGHT EVERYONE

Pop culture is one of the most reliable ways to take the temperature of a society. Look, for example, at the recent resurgence of zombies and vampires and human-like monsters. The last time we saw this many human-shaped monster movies? It was the heart of the Cold War, and we were afraid of our neighbors. Now, the narrative has shifted more towards the I Am Legend/Walking Dead side. Because back then we could communicate with our monsters (remember: Omega Man and I Am Legend have the same source, but one has Monsters who chill out and talk to Chuck Heston, the other has screamy zombiemonsterthings) and now we have lost our ability to even speak the same language as our assailants - as terrorists - and we have no way to get them to communicate with us. (One day my dissertation will be on Cold War Science Fiction and the Social Climate of America, but not today.)

So if Natasha is going to successfully infiltrate a society, like she does in IM2, she has to be up on the pop culture enough to a) know what it MEANS to the people there and b)get the references. I'm sure SHIELD briefs her on it, but she doesn't learn it because it's fun.

Clint, I think, knows the Big Stuff - Wizard of Oz, Elvis, that kind of thing. I don't think if he and someone his age sat down, they'd both have fond memories of Howdy Doody, because Clint is an orphan and a runaway. He didn't have TIM for pop culture when he was little, he was too busy surviving.

They're probably also not really casual TV watchers, because they have Other Things To Do, but in my head canon, Clint LOVES bridal shows because he likes the idea of extravagance, and Natasha loves survival wilderness shows because she knows she could do it SO MUCH BETTER.

I think of them both as News Radio listeners, when they listen to the radio, because they HAVE to stay up on current events for their jobs.

I just don't see C/N as leisure types - neither one of them is likely to unwind without being made to, and when they do, I imagine they do a lot of reading.

But that's me, and I'm a little strange.

I'm sat here nodding along and loving. So if Natasha is going to successfully infiltrate a society, like she does in IM2, she has to be up on the pop culture enough to a) know what it MEANS to the people there and b)get the references. I'm sure SHIELD briefs her on it, but she doesn't learn it because it's fun. EXACLTY. And I think the Red Room, or whatever her past was, was a similar situation. I agree that neither of them have the time for leisure really, or with their pasts would be the type to see the point in it, but I think as part of reclaiming herself, of moving past her past, Natasha would explore at least some pop culture with a view to figuring out what she liked, if only as part of being able to like things.

in my head canon, Clint LOVES bridal shows because he likes the idea of extravagance, and Natasha loves survival wilderness shows because she knows she could do it SO MUCH BETTER. My mind immediately leaped here to: because Clint never had much and loves looking at all the things that their can be, even if his lifestyle still means having that kind of stuff would be pointless, and because Natasha likes to know that she's better, not in a nasty way, just an accomplished kind of like people laugh at people they (think) they know better than on reality shows type of way?

I think of them both as News Radio listeners, when they listen to the radio, because they HAVE to stay up on current events for their jobs. Hmm, do you think thye have an ongoing challenge/bet to see who can figure out where they're going to be sent first? Heh.

Heh, I'm writing a fic about this right now (the Clint version of a Natasha story I recently posted where Clint has a secret hobby) that mainly deals with how they view literature in particular, so this topic is very timely. I see Natasha as liking the Russian greats, but having eclectic taste in books. Clint, for some reason, I see liking Cormac McCarthy quite a bit, possibly because he would have traveled through a lot of the south, west, and midwest in his circus days. But that's a tiny headcanon I have of him from my Crosshairs series. That, and he listens to audiobooks occasionally when he's up in the sniper's nest.

For other stuff, I don't see either of them as a pop-culture junkie, or that they check TMZ all the time. They probably view pop culture as trivial. That said, they probably have interesting holes in their pop culture knowledge. Like, there's probably an ongoing thing where they've caught some really, really random stuff on hotel TV sets and given their own skillsets, have near photographic memories about retaining that sort of thing. Or they've caught a lot of avant-garde cinema because a good place to make drops are cheap, dollar movie theaters. I love details like those.

One fic has Natasha having a secret passion for Spanish telenovas, which amuses me greatly.

Or they've caught a lot of avant-garde cinema because a good place to make drops are cheap, dollar movie theaters. I love details like those.

That would be an interesting fic. Five things Natasha or Clint picked up while making drops.

I'd never thought about them being up on world culture but I think you've hit the nail on the head! They would know as much about the cultures they gave to infiltrate as their own. So instead of being deep (knowing a lot about one) they would most likely be wide (know a little about a bunch) - if that makes sense.

white blank page (http://archiveofourown.org/works/503738?view_full_work=true) by allisnow has a small reference to Clint's bookshelves being filled with Louis L'Amour and John Grisham, so that's become personal canon. Though I mostly link the fic because I just finished it and holy crap, it's amazing.

This is in my bookmarks! And you've just made me even more excited to read it :D

My headcanon Natasha and Clint are both complete nerds with different interests. Natasha is a huge bookworm with eclectic taste where Clint prefers to chill out with television with a book every once in a while. They share a fondness for Lord of the Rings, with Clint saying the cinematic version is better mostly to annoy Natasha. Natasha will defend the books in all their lengthy glory, but has fond memories of the first time they watched it together.

Natasha reads Lord of the Rings in Congratulations on Your Birthday by Ashen_key http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8236790/1/Congratulations-on-Your-Birthday which is where my headcanon started.

*BEAMS* Yaaaaay contributing to headcanon.

Sorry, that's the favourite fic of Nat's I've done, so, yaaaaaaaay.

I'm with other people here - I think Natasha is actually on the pulse of a lot of pop culture (and not just American, but most if not all of the languages she can pass as a native-speaker in; canonically she can speak French and Italian, so I imagine her studying them just as much as much). Conveniently, my Natasha is a geek, so she has a natural affinity for a lot of it, and her choice to own the extended, special, everything-in-them versions of the LotR DVDs is her own choice, as she adores the books (I have her reading them in Congratulations on Your Birthday, where she also has a moment of empathy with Buzz Lightyear, and pretends she's on Hoth (Star Wars) when doing some rifle practice in the snow). May or may not know Elvish, but she's a utter linguistics-geek, so..... Books she can specialize more in - although she does have a huge range of languages, and a fondness for Soviet sci-fi above all. For her music tastes, go read "the radio plays just the perfect song" because dictator_duck is my partner in crime, and asked what I thought Natasha's tastes in music are (and also read it because it's an awesome story). Basically, as much of her taste, her taste in music is multicultural (her at-home collection is much more varied than her ipod, which had been cut down to Natalie Rushman-believable) and eclectic. For the record, her ipod is called Scheherazade.

But Clint...didn't really help with sorting out her tastes. My Natasha spent seven years between the Red Room and SHIELD - she did a lot of working out what she does and does not like by herself (as her library in her Swedish cabin can attest), so by the time they were hang out post him recruiting her (or her recruiting herself via him, as was closer to the mark) they already had a love of bad action movies, and so they bonded over that (also coffee, and paperwork. All of the paperwork).

Clint himself is harder for me, and not nearly as eclectic. He's a Louis L'Amour kind of guy, lots of Western music (which Natasha, the heathen, claimed to know nothing about in knowing that your door is always open, so he's been educating her with both cds and his guitar. Occasionally there are duets, because it is sinking it. Also, both of them have gorgeous voices and I like them signing together) He watched a lot of TV when he was medically discharged from the Army, but not so much since with SHIELD (and not so much pre-Army, either, due to circus). Has seen the X-Files, though, that much I know.

But of the two, Natasha knows more modern pop-culture, although it bleeds over once they start living together.

Edited 2012-11-02 10:52 pm (UTC)

May or may not know Elvish, but she's a utter linguistics-geek, so..... I... I love Natasha as knowing a ton of languages. I don't have absolute headcanon on it, but Natasha knowing loads of languages including sign language and lip reading and basically all communication is a huge thing with me, and the idea of her going on to learn languages like Elvish after she's done with Latin, oh my gosh, I LOVE that. (And can you just see her messing with Tony after she finds out how much him not understanding her Latin peeved him off?)

And I love the radio plays the perfect song - recced it above myself :D For the record, her ipod is called Scheherazade. <3

My Natasha spent seven years between the Red Room and SHIELD Again, I don't have fixed headcanon on this, but since we technically know the ages of the characters from the extra info and it's the same as the actors this makes sense. I just for some reason keep drifting into thinking that when they met Natasha was younger and hadn't been on her own long at all, if at all (and if she was on her own she was following the old patterns, but they were degrading). I don't know why. I read all things, just, that's the way my brain keeps floating *shrugs*. I absolutely like the idea though that she stood alone, reclaimed/remade herself. (When I think of Clint helping I think more in terms of him prodding her, or dropping by with things for her to try, rather than him dragging her into pop culture liking land by her boot straps anyway.)

SHIELD + paperwork = OTP ;D

Yeah, I don't see Clint as really caring for pop culture. Maybe because I don't see him as materialistic or possessive? So not owning huge amounts of DVDs or getting attatched to things when he's always going to be moving and won't be able to keep up with them, just picking up on things as he goes and being all 'yeah, liked that' calm.

Any particular reason for the X-Files?

I like any and all references to any Avengers being fans of the Lord of the Rings. This, of course, is partly due to my love for the Lord of the Rings. Though if we're honest, you can pick up those books basically anywhere so it is likely that they'd be familiar with them. The films even more so.

THOUGH my favourite mention of LotR in an Avengers fic is actually The Stories That Stay With You by TLvop on AO3.
"In the end, stories are about the people in them --personalities and relationships resonate across cultures and worlds. Or: Thor reads Lord of the Rings, and tries to use it to process his past and present, and as a framework to hope for the future."

One thing I think is that Clint and Nat would be better versed in film and books than they would be in TV. TV is harder to keep up with then you're galavanting around the world being awesome. As to music, I am a firm believer in Nat knowing most about classical/orchestral music - operas and ballets. Clint I always see as being into classic rock and country, but I have no particular reason for that, just jumping on everyone elses bandwagon.

If I were going to do Clint and Natasha with pop culture I would go with books purely because if I'm following the write what you know rule then that's what I'm the most comfortable with *grins*. Side note: I think thanks to the films Lord of the Rings is widely known (again) - enough that we get Tony calling Clint 'Legolas' actually in the Avengers, because everyone's gonna know what that means.

just jumping on everyone elses bandwagon. I call it being persuaded into headcanon, heehee. Although it can get to the point where you suddenly stop and think 'is X a thing at all in any canon, or is that fandom headcanon' and realise that you don't actually know the answer and that's mind bendy :D

I feel the urge to add some images to this Friday Party! So, images of reading, listening to music, playing music...




















Edited 2012-11-02 10:55 pm (UTC)

Icon says it all ;)

I always joked around that Clint is a huge fan of the Hunger Games XD

I can totally see Clint watching The Hunger Games, The Lord of the Rings, all versions of Robin Hood, basically everything with archers in, because he loves them, to gripe about mistakes, and/or just because everyone keeps referencing them to him and he wants to know what they're on about :D

I spend way too much time thinking about pop culture in relation to the Avengers (and to Darcy, whose only non-audiovisual thing she is a fan of is the star wars expanded universe which is her CHILDHOOD and nobody dare mock it she will ruin you).

I generally run with Natasha being more into books, etc., taking off from ashen_key's headcanon of Natasha having a cabin in rural-tastic sweden where she hid out in her professional years and still does so occasionally, so books are one of the few sources of entertainment. Along with Iron Chef. Because Iron Chef is awesome, and also kind of hilarious. She enjoys silly action movies with Clint, but that started as a Clint thing.

Clint is more of a film dude, though from the start I've had him reading Louis L'amour (he grew up with old bent dimestore copies and leftovers from others in the circus) because Clint reminds me of an older version of my brother in many ways and my brother has a comfort-reading thing with the l'amour books and we own ... a lot so research is pretty easy. But with regards to film I think he has seen an incomplete amount of disney films (enjoyable for when you can't really handle realistic violence), and lots of stupid action movies.eta: silly action movies include lots of silly sci-fi action movies; he also got addicted to the X-files just post-military while he was recovering from his ear-injury and despite being pretty bad at keeping up with TV shows, he was a semi-regular fan (caught it when he could).

>.> In my head, lovingly-mocking stupid action movies is one of nat and clint's favorite hobbies.

OKAY I PROMISE THAT WAS THE LAST EDIT

Edited 2012-11-03 03:36 am (UTC)

My, I'm late in the game ... it's already Saturday where I am. Oh well.

My personal head canon has Clint wanting to catch up on the education he never got, to get past that "oh he's just a carnie" thing that I see coming at him, in particular from the ever-supercilious Maria Hill. I don't think he'd be wasting his time on airport books or paperbacks.

So when he sits on stakeouts, he'll be reading Shakespeare and the occasional Russian novel (mostly to understand Natasha a bit better) but getting pissed off with the latter 'coz, WHEN WILL THEY EVER GET TO THE POINT, can't they just DIE ALREADY?? Plus, he'd be devouring books on military history and strategy, and on politics/culture in the countries he gets sent to. As the guy who sees better from a distance, he'd be wanting to have the Big Picture for every op he gets sent on. Time and Newsweek, definitely.

As for Natasha -- I see her still acquiring a taste/habit for reading; it wouldn't have been encouraged in the Red Room (my goodness -- it could give you ideas!); she might pick up a chick lit paperback in an airport to pass the time and then go through it in kind of a morbid fascination about the kind of crap some women seem to be interested in ... ;-) Magazines, to get ideas about how to fulfil all those male fantasies when she's on the job. Vogue would be, like, a manual for her.

*peers in*

I've been thinking about joining in discussions, etc. here, but after all the lovely business above, I think I'm kind of intimidated. Oh, and late to the party.

Not that either of those things will stop me. :-)

I get the impression that if Natasha listens to music at all, it's either mellow, moody music or absolutely horrible, over the top EuroPop. If the latter, it's mostly to annoy the piss out of Clint (who I think probably doesn't listen to anything, even if classic rock helps me write him).

Also, hello!

Edited 2012-11-03 10:10 am (UTC)

Hi! Yes- I love the headcanon of our master assassins being trolls. Of course they would use popular culture to poke fun at each other.

Dancing. They're both decent dancers, well Natasha is more than just decent - ballet and ballroom dances were all part of her training. As for Clint, whom I see as musical, and quick learner, and knower of many things, I think he learned everything he possibly could along the way and dancing was there as well.

In one fic I had them practice dancing for missions, in other he danced with her whenever she was feeling distressed, in third they danced (tango) when they first met (and he told her he had no wish to kill her). I think dance can be a good metaphor for their dynamic. To me, they are tango, if I had to pick a dance that represents them, and Natasha on her own is flamenco, because I see all of that intensity and passion to live and survive wrapped in her. Clint, he is more like a slow guitar tune that only sounds simple - actually, to me he is this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh2GFoDae8Y) - but he adapts well and if Natasha needs a dancing partner, for purposes of mission or simply for comfort, he's there.

Also, I blame my dancing headcanons largely on this picture:

YES YES YES ALL OF THIS. Dancing. Oh man I have so many feels for the two of them dancing. And they look devastating doing things like the pasodoble and other Latin dances. Like the Argentine tango. Oh my.