26 October 2012 @ 05:17 pm
All Things Friday: power and trust  
So, I'll try to be as coherent as possible with this Friday's discussion - intro.

It's really amazing how "less is more" sometimes proves to be true. I've watched The Avengers at least ten times over the last few months and among several strong impressions the movie leaves me with each and every time, my favorite is the sense of connection between Hawkeye and Black Widow, aka, Natasha and Clint. Even though we don't see them interacting a lot (how much screentime does Clint have anyway? I read it's 13-ish minutes somewhere, but it feels longer) the director (we know you're brilliant, sir) made sure we don't miss the fact that these two people have miles and miles behind them, which they've crossed together.

While these two share a lot in common, I picked power and trust for today's discussion, and I'll try to keep this brief and somewhat coherent (it's not easy with ALL THE FEELS). One thing I love in my OTPs is the sense of equality. There is no doubt that both of them are powerful, in sense of things they can do, their skill set and the fact that they can hold the ground with four other superheroes, all of whom are somehow enhanced (while movie! Clint and Tasha are "ordinary humans".) One thing which I love (when I write or read about them) is when they're portrayed as equally matched (aka, both good and capable fighters, strong personalities, smart and resourceful people, but also flawed people, but I guess that's a whole different topic. I especially appreciate when fic authors don't write Clint as "weaker", less capable in physical fight in order to show how badass or strong Natasha is - they're both strong.) Power dynamics between equally matched partners is very interesting to discuss or write or read about. I've seen this portrayed in different ways, with one in the lead and the other following, one being in charge of one aspect of their lives and partnership while other handles other things. Or they shift the power between them in the way they see fit, or how the current mission requires it.

Which leads me to trust. They're not really designed to be trusting people, but that single scene they share in the movie simply screamed (mutual) trust. I'm always left with the feeling that Natasha, as scared after the Hulk - encounter as she was, didn't trust anyone else to go after Clint, and there can be many reasons. Clint is dangerous, even in his mind - controlled state (or especially while he was like that), and even more people could have been killed, but also, I like to think that she wanted to be the one who'll see if there is any Clint left in him. When he wakes up it doesn't take her long to decide it really is him now, and she unties him. There are lot of cues that subtly show the level of comfort between them (which implies trust) - from physical closeness and the fact that they briefly share a smile (and to me, it's an important clue, because they don't do this with other Avengers), to the fact that things don't have to be explained in detail. They obviously share a history, and probably secrets. As far as headcanons go (and I share most of mine with [livejournal.com profile] cybermathwitch who helped me out with this post so much!) - I like to think that they're each other's failsafe (and if one is gone beyond repair, the other will end their life), and that's, I suppose, the ultimate trust when it comes to people like them. But trust can (and does) expand to other areas of life and I love when it's explored, especially when it's a part of Natasha's reclaiming herself theme - for someone who couldn't rely on anyone, having a partner like Clint is a monumental thing, and I like to think that this mutual trust is the base of the loyalty we witness in Natasha, from the moment Coulson utters the famous words "Barton's been compromised".

Okay, enough of me! I can't possibly do this theme justice all on my own. The bar is open, share your thoughts, rec your favorite fics, discuss, flail, do the thing you do best - have fun! <3!
 
 
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[identity profile] avenging-archer.livejournal.com on October 28th, 2012 03:53 am (UTC)
Hi!
Sticking my head in rather nervously, as I just joined this community, having seen it mentioned by several authors, and being extremely new to fandom with zero background in comic canon, beyond Wiki. I fell in love with the Marvel Movie universe after months of refusing to watch The Avengers because I'd never seen the other Marvel movies and thinking I'd be lost. Thankfully, my 16 year old daughter forced me to watch Thor in July, and being an Archer Obsessee, I immediately fell for Agent Barton in that 2 min cameo (is it even 2 min?). She then drug me to see Avengers and since then I've become something of an addicted crazy woman (she says she created a monster!), abandoning (at least temporarily) my fandom of six years when my muse fixated on 'that archer guy from SHIELD'.

So here I am, and I am really enjoying reading this discussion. Nothing to add since I'm feeling rather overwhelmed and newbie-ish, but definitely soaking it up! So I'll just say THANK YOU for such a great community, and casually/nervously/wincingly mention I'm about 20K words into what I expect will end up a 80-100K novel length back story on Clint and Natasha based on movie verse and the data found on the Bluray SHIELD Personnel Files for them, which apparently differs a bit from comic canon. It will be nice to have a place to post it when I get it far enough along to be comfortable doing so. :)
[identity profile] chrisfaithalin.livejournal.com on October 28th, 2012 04:39 am (UTC)
Re: Hi!
Welcome! I'm glad you're poking your head out. It's always nice meeting new fans of these two. This community pretty much is the most kickass one I've been a part of. And yay another writer for these two! Seriously, the rate I read stories there can never be enough authors for these two, lol.
[identity profile] sugar-fey.livejournal.com on October 28th, 2012 05:33 am (UTC)
Re: Hi!
Welcome to the community! It's always nice to see new shippers. We mods strive to keep this a friendly, helpful space, so if you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to contact one of us.

casually/nervously/wincingly mention I'm about 20K words into what I expect will end up a 80-100K novel length back story on Clint and Natasha based on movie verse and the data found on the Bluray SHIELD Personnel Files for them, which apparently differs a bit from comic canon.

Well, isn't that intriguing. ;) I do love a good Clint/Natasha novel length fic. *grabby hands* Don't worry about not following comic canon, most fans regard the movies and the films as separate universes.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on October 28th, 2012 05:45 am (UTC)
Re: Hi!
Hello! I remember well being intimidated by this comm and all the awesome here just a few months ago, but I can honestly say that people here are friendly, that we're here for love and fun and new shippers and new fic is always welcome!

Also, I understand your obsession very well. My old fandoms are suffering and my friends are giving me weird looks but - THIS IS THE BEST YACHT EVER as we say here.

As far as canons in movie and comics go, we tend to take from comics what we like and incorporate it in personal canons. I think you'll find different approaches and interpretations of Clint and Natasha, there isn't one right way to go. Lots of creative freedom! :)
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on October 28th, 2012 11:39 am (UTC)
Re: Hi!
I feel a bit odd saying "welcome" because I've only been here for a couple of weeks myself. But yeah -- I get that whole obsession bit ... it crept up on me rather unexpectedly, and I've been (unsuccessfully) trying to scrabble my way back to my original fandom (Star Trek: Voyager) ever since. I owe people the third part of a trilogy (they're starting to complain ...) and instead I've produced one-and-a-half Avengers pieces.

It doesn't help when you have friends who present you with Hawkeye action figures... ;-) And yeah, my own fourteen-year-old informs people quite gleefully that "my Mom's addicted to the Avengers."

I'm nervous about doing backstory stuff because there's so much comic canon out there that I have no clue about (and no wish to get into), so I look forward to yours! I did a spot of imagining the "he made a different call" but in Chapter 2 of my latest ("In the Service") but that's probably as far as I'll go.

I admire you for your novel length ambitions (I've done five of those for Voyager -- they do knock the stuffing out of you.) Bpn courage!
[identity profile] cybermathwitch.livejournal.com on October 28th, 2012 01:32 pm (UTC)
::waves:: Hi there! :D
ext_2027[identity profile] astridv.livejournal.com on October 28th, 2012 03:54 pm (UTC)
Re: Hi!
*waves* Hi!
I like the sound of that... 80-100K novel length back story. :o)