23 November 2012 @ 12:00 pm
All Things Friday - Children!  
WARNING: possible triggers raised regarding just about any issue related to children and things that may happen to them, both good and evil, at all stages of life and development, including women's ability to bear children.

Children. Be they Natasha and Clint's offspring or the two of them as children, rugrats are a common theme in this fandom. So let's discuss! I admit that I have conflicted feelings about both types of approaches to the children question (that being (a) our favorite spies have children or (b) they are children) and whether to like the concept or not. Mostly I would say it depends on how authors approach it. Let's start with the idea of them having children.

First of all, there's the question of whether Natasha can physically bear children. Would the Red Room really have left this highly valuable asset capable of being sidelined by maternity leave? When I'm being honest with myself, my own head canon says no. That being said, I always go back to Jeff Goldblum's claim in “Jurassic Park” that life finds a way. Unless the Red Room gave their spy a hysterectomy, which I highly doubt due to the ongoing medication that would then be required to keep her hormones regulated, methods of preventing conception can often be overturned, reversed or faulty. Fanfiction has dealt with this often – Natasha and Clint both dealing with the concept in one form or another and/or at different stages of the game. It's an interesting dynamic, to be sure, and perhaps somewhat unique to this pairing. (I don't know of many – any? - other women in my fandoms to whom such concerns may apply – feel free to correct me and make comparisons.) So there's that.

Next, do they want children or even believe they should want children? I find that fanon tends to posit that Clint does want children while Natasha is less than eager. Of course, this relates to the usual presentation of Clint being the more emotionally healthy or at least emotionally stable half of the pairing, more willing to expand his circle of love, so to speak, than Natasha. What do you think? Would our assassins, both individually and together, want children? Would they view their lives as ones into which children could/should be invited? Do they view themselves as worthy of parenthood? Would they want to procreate personally or are there situations in which they would take responsibility for a child that is not biologically theirs? The idea of adoption is actually a whole separate track, I would imagine – as always, it would depend on how the situation arose and what led to it. Hmmm...

And then, what kind of parents would they be? Often in stories, when co-parenting, the two of them hold in there pretty well, learning as new parents are wont to do. More questions come up when the idea of Natasha parenting alone is raised, the general consensus being that she wouldn't be very good at it. I can think of one notable exception, which I will list below, but that seems to be the overall concept. I actually haven't read any stories in which Clint ended up parenting alone, which begs the question – how would he do?

Now we move on to the idea of either or both of them being children. (I considered not including this as it significantly broadens the topic, but it's fun to explore, so there you go. :-) Feel free to talk about/discuss whatever you desire when it comes to li'l rugrats.)

Let us begin by mentioning the stories in which either of our adult assassins is magically transformed into a child. It may be together or just one of them; I fully admit that my favorite trope is when the adults appear as the children they were at the ages to which they are transformed, i.e. four-year-old Natasha hasn't had anything bad done to her, Clint is afraid adults will hurt him for mistakes, 12-year-old Natasha is an assassin in training, etc. It's fascinating to read authors' visions of how the rest of the Avengers respond to young versions of their teammates.

Then there is fanfiction that simply presents Natasha and/or Clint as children, which is a whole separate (and detailed) discussion/issue. I believe that as applies to this discussion, my interest focuses on how their childhoods affect the adults they become, their interaction with children they later meet, their desire to have children, reaction to having children, etc. Bottom line: how do their childhood experiences impact them down the line?

So what do you think? Natasha, Clint, children. Having them, being them, interacting with them, saving them, watching them. Have at it!

Also, for your reading pleasure, I am including a few of my favorite stories in which our pair + children are somehow involved. Please share yours, as well! [Note: I tried to stick with non-AUs, as that is completely separate. I think the only AU here is the WWII drabble, which I included b/c I like Clint's reaction to the news. :-)]

Clint/Natasha as Parents
** Assassin Baby series by sanachie, rated G and T. Clint and Natasha have a four-year-old at the time of the movie. Lots of fun, particularly because it takes Tony a month to realize Clint and Natasha even have a child in the Tower.
** I'll Watch Your Back, I'll Have Your Heart by TashaBlackWidow, rated Teen. Natasha is held hostage for 15 months and finally returns with a six-month old - seven chapters, not sure if the author intends to finish this, but it ends in a good enough place. Very interesting, unique take on Natasha as a mother, as well as what happens when she gets back to Clint.
** 5 Times Clint Woke Up in the Middle of the Night and 1 Time Natasha Did by SidheRa, rated Mature. Ah, yes, being pregnant, having babies, and raising babies can indeed wake you up - progresses from Clint and Natasha finding out they're pregnant through having the baby. Fluffy but takes it seriously.
** After the War by ashen_key, rated Teen. WWII drabble - The war is over and Clint sets out to find that beautiful dame he had a thing with. Instead she finds him. And she has a stroller.

Clint/Natasha Contemplate Parenthood
** Lion-Hearted Girl by shooting-stetsons (TheUniverseWillSing), rated Mature. Difficult but powerful - originally intended as a one-shot about Natasha having a miscarriage, but has continued on addressing the issue of Clint, Natasha and how they feel about having a child. Currently updating WIP.

Turned Into Children
** Getting to Know You by QueenRiley, not rated (deals with issues of child abuse). My very, very favorite Avengers-turn-into-children fic. Absolutely fascinating look into what their childhoods were like as they appear AS the kids they were at that age, almost like time teleportation. And Tony has to care for them, which is hilarious in and of itself. (It really is my favorite.)
** Amateur Theatrics by galaxysoup, rated Teen. Loki becomes a child and the Avengers, Clint and Natasha in particular, become his caretakers. Question of the day – do they turn him back or not?
** Baby Mine by Resonae, rated K+. Clint is transformed into a 2-year-old, but retains his adult mind. The rest of the Avengers care for him; adorable.
** Second Chance by [Bad username or site: ”arsenicjade” @ livejournal.com], rated G. Clint is turned into a child and everyone cares for him. Another one where Clint is turned into the child he was at that time. Some very heartbreaking looks into what his life at that time was like. How he is turned back into an adult is very inventive. Focus on how the other Avengers react/relate to child!Clint .

General (but related to the topic)
** Food for Thought by gypsylady, rated G. Food from their childhoods presented in group therapy. They all get to know each other better by learning about their childhoods.
 
 
Current Mood: bouncy
 
 
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[identity profile] i-llbedammned.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 05:24 pm (UTC)
Personally in my head canon Natasha has been forcibly sterilized by the Red Room. They would not want a spy that they trained for seduction getting pregnant and taken out of the game. I actually see it as a bit of a hard spot for her, something that they took from her that she can never undo. It is a reminder that they still control her to a degree.

However if children are to be possible I will buy the fact that the nanites in her blood have had the unexpecte consequence of restoring some of her ability to bear children without anybody realizing it. I mean sometimes people do heal in extraordinary circumstances so it is possible with advanced human augmentations the same thing would happen.

I always saw Natasha as secretly wanting a child. She would never admit to it save for small secret talks that she and Clint have had. But she believes, both because of her upbringing and the life she lives, that it will never truly be.

Clint I think wants a family. He understands it would be hard, but he is more optimistic than her. He was raised in a sort of family so he knows that despite all the training it is still possible for a family to form and be mostly functional.

I could see both of them adopting. Clint was raised in a hodgepodge family, and the only family Natasha has ever known has never been made of her blood. I don't even think that it would strike them as being odd to consider something that wasn't blood to be family.

I think either of them would be good parents. If they have the drive to do so I think they will both find a way. If Natasha had to raise on by her self I think that it would end up a bit emotionally stunted as she barely understands her own emotions at times and spent most of her childhood being raised to kill things. But the child would be well equipped to deal with the troubles of the world, just not really able to express pain or sadness that easily. I think she would have a problem when the child started crying, at least at first, because she doesn't know a healthy way to deal with that from experiences. She wouldn't want to ask for help though, she has too much pride.

I think if Clint had to raise it by himself he would be a bit more stable emotionally. I think he would rely heavily upon others, friends that he trusts, to help him raise the kid. It would be more like a village raising the child rather than one man. I think this would put a stress on his friends a bit, they might get pissed at him for dumping a child on them to do an assassination mission for example, but I think the child would not be too negatively affected. After all, having multiple superhero parents couldn't be too bad. I think he would be more likely to ask for help than her. I mean he would try to do everything on his own, but eventually he would realize that the life of an assassin is not one he wants for his child and use his connections to try and make its life easier.
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 12:51 am (UTC)
Oooooo... Now I have this image in my head of the two of them having a conversation late one night as they lay there about her feelings about having children. And good description of the kind of single parents they would make!
[identity profile] jorizo.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 05:24 pm (UTC)
Yey! I've been waiting for this since this is the first Friday night I have to myself in a long time (or since I found this bar) so I can actually take part.

On to my thoughts on the subject at hand. As you pointed out, hysterectomy seems a bit much since it would screw with her abdominal muscles and leave here sidelined for a long time. I read somewhere that the things the Red Room did to enhance her physique, did something screwy to her reproductive system but no one really knows what. This seems like the most plausible reason for me. Knowing a little bit about how abortion is viewed in today's Russia, I would posit that the Red Room would be more likely to use that as a means of making sure their agents don't procreate. So, I see it as a definite possibility that Natasha could one day become pregnant. Time heals all wounds and so on.

As for the would they want kids. My head canon is that they never really saw it as a possibility in their lives until they got together. I think the two are two broke people putting each other back together piece by piece so getting to the head space where parenthood is something I think is realistic. And neither could even think about doing it with anyone else.

According to my head canon, they can no longer be the covert operatives they once were after the Avengers assemble for the first time since their faces are plastered all over the Internet. So they have time to rethink their lives and maybe start to see children and having a family as something they could have. And I think they'd be awesome parents, together or separately. They have had shitty childhoods and they know how not to do it. So I see them as two people who would love their child(ren) above all and make sure they know it.

Phew. My fingers hurt from all the typing.

Edited it a bit for some stupid things.

Edited 2012-11-23 05:31 pm (UTC)
ext_36286: movie // avengers // i <3 this bar[identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 06:39 pm (UTC)

According to my head canon, they can no longer be the covert operatives they once were after the Avengers assemble for the first time since their faces are plastered all over the Internet. So they have time to rethink their lives and maybe start to see children and having a family as something they could have.


Okay I had to jump in here and squee at you because I think this is one of the most interesting aspects of the post-movie world. I don't think Clint and Natasha would necessarily get as much coverage as the other four, but for sure their roles and their duties would HAVE to change. I mean, I don't know if bad guys actually use tumblr or anything, but they must communicate in some way about what their enemies look like. (I thought of this while watching the new Bond movie... how does everybody not already know who this guy is, especially since he loves giving out his real name so much?)

And I think they'd be awesome parents, together or separately. They have had shitty childhoods and they know how not to do it. So I see them as two people who would love their child(ren) above all and make sure they know it.

The way I see it, they couldn't do worse then a lot of the 'normal' people out there (cynical Alli is cynical).
(no subject) - [identity profile] jorizo.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 06:46 pm (UTC)
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(no subject) - [identity profile] jorizo.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 06:59 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 12:53 am (UTC)
As for the would they want kids. My head canon is that they never really saw it as a possibility in their lives until they got together. I think the two are two broke people putting each other back together piece by piece so getting to the head space where parenthood is something I think is realistic. And neither could even think about doing it with anyone else. THIS!
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 06:38 pm (UTC)
I actually entered this fandom with a babyfic - which probably wasn't the best idea, because (I assume) there will always be more people who want to read about spies being spies and all that. I have a soft spot for stories concerning children, especially when their parents have to rise challenges to become parents in the first place.

I considered the possibility of RR doing something to Natasha to prevent her to procreate and finally decided against it. I think they would simply force their operatives to have abortions. It's cruel and practical and to me feels like their MO. They might force them to have hormonal implants, to prevent pregnancies as well. As for does she want children? It's a huge what - if thing, and my main headcanon Natasha believes she wouldn't be a good parent, but in that one story when she does end up pregnant, she can't just flip a switch inside herself and have an abortion, because it's Clint's and her child in question. They go through a hard and emotionally exhausting process of making a decision on what to do, and the rest of the team!Avengers eventually figures out that something is going on and they attempt to show their support.

I tend to see Clint as the one who is more emotionally stable among the two, and he does want a family. On some level, which may not even be conscious, and not an active wish, considering his lifestyle. But I tend to look at him as the one who is more open to the idea and somewhat less freaked out by it.

As what kind of parents they'd be, my first thought is very protective, very careful - careful not to make mistakes, considering how they both had pretty horrible childhood experiences, careful about security issues. Natasha would insist on rules and good manners (and I have so many feels about her as a protective, fierce lioness - mother. Touch her child, or someone who belongs to her family, and you're doomed.) Clint, I tend to see him as the more "fun" parent; one who picks kids up, tosses them in the air and teaches them cool things. I didn't actively think about them adopting a child, but I think it would be an interesting scenario.

As far as the writing goes, a good third of my stories involve children - one universe is set right after the movie, the other one is AU/crossover, and if you like I'll link you. I feel bit uncomfortable about self reccing. Currently, I'm trying to finish up the idea I got after last week's Friday discussion, flipping the cliche on its head, and writing a story about Natasha wanting to have children.

One of my favorute child - related stories is "The neighbor" (http://daxcat79.livejournal.com/75934.html) AU written by [livejournal.com profile] daxcat79 considering how my other favorites are already recced here. Follow the author's tags ("fanfic2> to find the later chapters; I linked you to the first. I really enjoyed this story - it's one of those that could have turned into a story you read so many times over, but Dax dealt with the theme of joining families so wonderfully and honestly. Max, Natasha's son is beyond adorable too.

There is more to be said on this topic but my brain isn't working properly, so I better grab some coffee.
[identity profile] jorizo.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 06:51 pm (UTC)
You wrote Kobayashi Maru! I love that. I just re-read the series this week. Though my head canon is a lot less angsty, I love how you had them deal with the issue and come to terms with. It feels very real. And please do give a link to the other one as well. Thought I've probably read it if it's on AO3 since I read everything you've posted there :D
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[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 12:58 am (UTC)
Oh, my goodness, I LOOOOOVE Kobayashi Maru!!! And what is the other one of which you speak? Hmmm??? :-)

I definitely agree about Natasha being the stricter parent - she is definitely not the one who would throw the baby up in the air. :-) I think they would balance each other out that way, which is always a good thing.
ext_36286: movie // avengers // SNL Renner[identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 06:51 pm (UTC)
This topic is very relevent to my interests right now, so I plan on living in this thread for a while, yay :)

As much as I like to play with/reverse tropes, yeah, I do see Natasha as being more freaked out by the idea of parenthood and Clint more accepting of it. Is that because he really is more emotionally stable or just because we assume that, while his childhood sucked, it didn't such nearly as much as Natasha's did?

I was thinking that I've come across a lot more fic about Natasha as a child than about Clint as a child. In fact most of what I know about his childhood is from Wikipedia. What's the deal with that, I wonder?

Natasha being able to conceive: I could be convinced either way on this one, but in general I lean towards 'no'. Obviously nothing is foolproof except the aforementioned hysterectomy, but we're playing in a world where the possibilities are pretty infinite, so I don't think anyone could really complain too much about a fic that said "Nope, Natasha can definitely not get pregnant." Aside from what the Red Room might have done to her, injuries in the course of her job might make conception unlikely. And if she HAD had repeated abortions, that can cause issues as well.

Of course this is all assuming that Clint is as, er, virile as we might expect him to be, in this respect ;)
[identity profile] jorizo.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 06:55 pm (UTC)
On Natasha being able to conceive (haven't figured out how to quote in comments yet):

I'm an optimist at heart so that's why I'd like to think that it can happen. Sort of an against-all-odds type of thing. Definitely unplanned and shocking, even if it was something they wanted from the start.
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[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 01:11 am (UTC)
The only thing for me to add that others haven't sad in response to your comment so far is that I think we should all take a moment and silently reflect upon virile Clint.

::reflection::

Resume your activities, everyone. :D
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[identity profile] phdelicious.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 07:03 pm (UTC)
I'm on too much tryptophan for thinky thoughts, but fic rec of the Clint and Natasha as kids variety:

Bows and Catapults (http://archiveofourown.org/works/499158) by Sproid is awesome if a little sad. I wish there was more in this universe.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 07:09 pm (UTC)
Seconding this rec! It's a wonderful story.
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[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 01:12 am (UTC)
Man, that's a good fic. SO SAD!!!! But amazing.
(no subject) - [identity profile] phdelicious.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 02:04 am (UTC)
[identity profile] noblealice.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 07:57 pm (UTC)
I want to come back to this page to read/comment on everyone's meta & thoughts and post my own thoughts about kids with this ship, but right now this topic has made me remember a fic I read and I hope someone else recognizes the synopsis because I want to find it again. I'm not sure if it was ever updated or if it's just an unfinished WIP.

SUMMARY:
Natasha is turned back into her teenage self (I don't remember if it's physically as well as mentally) but she doesn't remember any of the Avengers and Clint is the only person who's adamant that she be drugged and restrained because he knows what she can do at that age. The others are kinda doubtful about how much trouble she could get up to but Clint is firm, knowing she has no love for any of them at would kill them all in a second. OH AND HE IS LIKE "YOU THINK THIS IS HARD FOR YOU? SHE IS MY WIFE AND SHE DOESN'T KNOW ME." or something like that. (yay surprise!marrieds)

Anyone know what I'm talking about and have a link?? *bats lashes*
[identity profile] jorizo.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 08:10 pm (UTC)
I remember reading that too. But I don't remember where I read it. FFnet, AO3 or LJ? Anyone?

Edited 2012-11-23 08:10 pm (UTC)
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[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 08:22 pm (UTC)
One more thing - something [livejournal.com profile] chimeriques said, and I haven't realized how much it makes sense until I read it in her comment -- Natasha having a child is the ultimate way of reclaiming herself. It's something Red Room never meant for her; they took away everything that was even remotely close to normal life, and being a mother was the last thing she was supposed to be. So, in a way, becoming a mother is the ultimate act of reclaiming her own life and saying "I can do this if I choose to do it" and yeah. I have lots and lots Clint and Natasha as parents feelings.
ext_36286: movie // avengers // widow symbol[identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 08:30 pm (UTC)
*sniffles* You just gave me feels, too.
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Ashen Key: Writer at Work[personal profile] ashen_key on November 23rd, 2012 09:32 pm (UTC)
My two (which I co-share with [livejournal.com profile] dictator_duck; Natasha is more mine, Clint is more hers, but we share and swap, yay shared-canon)...well, to start with (and do things out of order), my Red Room is different from others I've seen. So, Natasha has been raised in a group-enviroment since the age of five (her parents died at five; yay orphanage where the Red Room found her), and within the Red Room, she's had sisters (OCs, will be Jossed on them, I don't care as I love them; two of them are even still alive!) while growing up. In a lot of ways, her childhood was way more stable than Clint's. It was awful, with abuse of varying kinds and she never realised how terrified she was until she was out of the situation, but she's had secure love and stability, and she's ended up very clannish. Her general empathy for humanity might be fucked up thanks to the way she was raised, but because she had her sisters she's still capable of relating to people - it's just a very 'us and them' with regards to caring, morals, etc. unless she consciously holds in her mind that she needs to act different.

Which in my de-aged Natasha fic (first chapter hopefully up soon!) is interesting, because she's still got all of her emotions working fine, and she's scared and badly wants to go home to her sisters, and is trying not to mention them to protect them...and at the same time, she'd be perfectly fine with killing all the adults she's interacting with, because they are Not Her Clan (and are, in fact, The Enemy). But she's capable of smiling and playing friendly at the adults (read: the team, plus SHIELD). So, yeah, have fun with that, Avengers.

My Natasha does, actually, want children - but in general I'm running with the Red Room messing things up, so she's pretty sure she can't conceive. In one continuity I have, she and Clint have a son, her pregnancy come as a shock - but when she was thinking about her options, she ended up going 'fuck you, Red Room, I'm keeping the child'.

As a parent, Natasha is...decent enough? She's not a bad one, and she loves John fiercely, and she has a support network that she isn't afraid to ask for help - but she's a kind of 'mama was a lion' person, and she's still working at SHIELD which involves being away for weeks at a time. (I still love my fic let's start with honesty (the lies will happen later), where Natasha explains to her newly born son that she's not going to be a very good mother, but that she's going to try). It's Clint who is the main parent of John.

In his case although he wasn't particularly after a family-as-it-involves-children, he honestly was looking for a way to get out and retire while not being purposeless (I see him, by Thor and Avengers, as a pretty emotionally tired person), and raising his kid? Brilliant excuse to get out and have a purpose. Which could give the impression he doesn't care about John, but he absolutely loves that kid. And he's far more patient than Natasha with him.

I see a lot of....Nat-and-Clint's offspring learning their world, playing with guns and knowing exactly what they do (assuming they are still Avenging) in fandom, but my two the last thing they want John to do is to enter in their world. They give him enough training to survive should Things Go Wrong, but the lengths they'd go to keep him out of military and espionage life...(He ends up a scientist who studies frogs. Just a scientist who knows how to shake a tail and forge passports).

Clint's childhood wasn't nearly as settled as Natasha's, and he had to grow up way too fast; father frequently not there, mother only physically so, and then it was foster care, and from foster care to the circus. A shady circus, which is not the best place for a twelve-year-old kid. As far as Clint and being a dad goes, I think it's left him with a lot of 'what not to do', but also a worry about trying to protect John from the darker, fucked up side of life.

Edited 2012-11-23 09:37 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 12:15 am (UTC)
He ends up a scientist who studies frogs. Just a scientist who knows how to shake a tail and forge passports).

I love this headcanon. And I so badly want a Natasha with sisters/ other Widows who show up.
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inkvoices: avengers:past behind you hug (C/N)[personal profile] inkvoices on November 23rd, 2012 10:24 pm (UTC)
some thoughts and recs
Being Parents

I lean towards Natasha not being able to have children or the pair of them not seeing children factoring into their lives as they are at the moment. But if there's a draw in kid!fic that's it for me - that having kids would mean/be a change in lifestyle, how it would alter everything. Kobayashi Maru by [livejournal.com profile] anuna_81 (mild R, 16,932 words) is a fantastic example of Clint and Natasha deciding to take that change on.

I'm a huge fan of families of choice/finding a family in fics - let's not forget the non-conventional routes to having kids :) like you for always by [livejournal.com profile] curiouslyfic (PG13, approx. 30,000 words) I'm going to mention even though it's Clint/Bruce because of this premise: a clone of Natasha is found and Coulson takes responsibility because it's Natasha, because Natasha is someone important to Coulson. After what happens to Coulson in the film has happened it turns out that he's left that reponsibility to Clint and Natasha, but Natasha is uncomfortable for various reasons and doesn't actually find out what's going on for ages. Clint takes the responsibility on because Natasha, because of the importance of her and Coulson to him. It's the reasoning behind their choices, and their choices, that's interesting.

We also get non-conventional families such as [livejournal.com profile] anuna_81's Random Numbers (PG13, WIP, search author tags for rest - currently 6 chapters, Avengers/Castle) where Clint finds out that he has a son as a result of a one night stand some years ago, and the impact of this on the newly forming Avengers family, Clint and Natasha, and the New York cop family of his son's mum. In A Walk On Part In The War (PG13, approx. 2000 words) [livejournal.com profile] sugar_fey looks at Natasha's relationship with another Red Room girl, specifically one who Natasha may think of as her legacy.

Other people's thinky thoughts above about Natasha having a child being the ultimate way of reclaiming herself are very interesting! I'd say that regardless of whether or not the Red Room or her past has tried to take away that choice, she still has it, and that there are no right answers - one of the things I love in that first fic rec from [livejournal.com profile] anuna_81's fics is that the difficulty of choice isn't shied away from. And in the second, Random Numbers, that we get Clint being the focus, the one who brought a child into the mix, for a change.

Being Kids

A lot of 'characters get turned into kids' fic tends to be the standard fare of some laughs and the other characters realising said person had a bad childhood, and then they get turned back, the end. The sad thing about that for me is that their future, full of bad things, is already set in stone and can't be changed - that bad time growing up is still going to happen. Children are all about potentiality, but in these types of fics that potential is lost.

(Tell me, are there any stories where the characters don't turn back at the end, either out of choice or because it's irreversible??? I can't find my link, but there's a fic where all of the Avengers are turned into kids, but at different ages, and Natasha and Steve are the oldest. They have awareness of their older selves and experiences, but act their age. Natasha says that if she doesn't get turned back she might be a dancer this time around and the thought of that - a real second chance - is something that Phil thinks about and caught my imagination.)
inkvoices: avengers:past behind you hug (C/N)[personal profile] inkvoices on November 23rd, 2012 10:25 pm (UTC)
Re: some thoughts and recs 2/2
Bows and Catapults by [livejournal.com profile] flying_android (PG, 8700 words) has Clint and Natasha as children being fostered together - it's up to the reader to decide if it's an AU or not, and the potentiality remains. Also, this is one of my favourite stories where both of them are kids.

Meanwhile [livejournal.com profile] arsenicjade's Second Chance" (G, one shot) has a de-aged Clint that does a fantastic job of showing the impact and affects that Clint being a kid has on everyone else, so that there is change. One of the best 'turned into a kid fics' because it isn't 'character gets turned into a kid, everyone learns they had a bad childhood, the end'. This one deals with change.

I do love stories that play with Clint and Natasha's ages, so that one might be a lot younger than another, or joined SHIELD at a young age, or what have you. I like to see how that impacts the relationship and the situation. still officially lost by pollyrepeat (teen and up, 11,913 words) has Coulson mentoring a teenage Clint who has come to SHIELD's attention. Indebted by sablier_bloque (explicit, 14,312 words) and Who Hurt You? by [livejournal.com profile] flying_android (PG13, 3500 words) inspired by this artwork from jorston on tumblr deal with Clint being faced with a young Natasha when they first meet. There are lots of teenage AUs as well, but these three have fantastic dynamics between the characters.

Amusement

And finally, have a link to amusing and sweet gifs of Natasha and Clint as parents at mydoctortennant's domestic avengers tag on tumblr, because yes, there can be a lot of thinky thoughts, but there's also that amusement of two Master Assassins raising a kid surrounded by the Avengers.

Edited 2012-11-23 10:25 pm (UTC)
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[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_samalander/ on November 23rd, 2012 10:50 pm (UTC)
I go back and forth on Natasha' ability to have kids, but either way, I've never seen her as someone who wants them.

Without getting too TL;DR about my own life, having endured certain childhood experiances soured me to the idea of procreating really early, and I can't imagine someone who has gone through what Natasha has ever willingly bringing a child into this world - even less so once she's an Avenger and people know who she is - I imagine there will be marks who she's stolen from or whatever who suddenly have an in to who she is, and want to hurt her. She might think she could protect a child, but I can't imagine her willing to take such a personal risk.

Clint, on the other hand, I see as someone who wants the idea of a family, but not necessarilly the emotional reality of one. If anyone else is reading the current Hawkeye comic series, I see his relationship with Kate as kinda paternal; he's willing to train someone and bond with them, but I think he'd bulk at being a major support for a child's emotional well-being.

It's really, really dark, but The Devil By Your Side (http://archiveofourown.org/works/489401) form tristess's "Love's Ugly Little Twins" series is a interesting take on Natasha being pregnant. PLEASE MIND THE WARNINGS, it's totally non-con and bodyhorror, but it contains fantastic characterization of Loki and Natasha both. Can't recommend it highly enough.
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 01:34 am (UTC)
Clint, on the other hand, I see as someone who wants the idea of a family, but not necessarilly the emotional reality of one. Now there's an interesting statement with some wildly far-reaching implications. As a teacher, the less I say about that one, probably the better, as we know that anyone can find our comments out here in cyberworld. But...yeah. The point is I can very much see any one of the Avengers feeling this way.

And hey there! *waves*
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 11:04 pm (UTC)
The voice of pragmatism:

I'm agnostic on whether Clint and Natasha should have kids, but having had one myself all I can say is yeah. Natasha would be more apprehensive than Clint, because -- how on Earth will she ever get into that suit again??? Most baby fics tend to ignore the time it takes to GET to the baby stage, and man -- I'd like to see her try that thigh move at seven months ... ;-)

What I DO get is that Clint is instinctively protective of kids as a species. Just that shot of him helping the kid out of the bus window in the movie made me go all gooey and literally inspired one of my stories. So yeah, I have a feeling he'd make a pretty good dad. Plus, he wouldn't have any problems keeping his vest on.

ext_36286: movie // avengers // renner[identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on November 23rd, 2012 11:15 pm (UTC)
Aw that scene in the movie made me gooey as well. I think Clint is much more a protector than a "master assassin", to use Tony's wording, that he feels responsible to help helpless people, and little kids are about as helpless as you can get. Now, whether he would be able to relate to said kid easily... I don't know. I doubt Clint's spent much time around children since he was one himself. I'm around kids all day, 180+ days a year, so I'm always bemused by that topic.
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[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 12:29 am (UTC)
Some meta and a ficlet
I see Clint and Natasha both wanting kids in the abstract, but always having more important things going on in their lives. I could actually see them adopting a kid really easily, given their past. Maybe Barney or one of Natasha's sisters left an orphan behind? Or they come across a kid in their mission and they don't want him/ her going into the system?

Anyway a combination of last week's breaking cliches and this week's meta had me write this little ficlet. Natasha is calm, Clint panics:

“What is that?” Clint asked slowly, looking to Natasha’s hand in shock.

“A pregnancy test,” Natasha said, managing to keep the 'obviously' from slipping out.

“But I thought you couldn’t get pregnant.” Clint’s sharp eyes had already seen the positive result and his voice had gone unnaturally high.

“So did I. I was wrong.” She regarded him calmly, and saw the precise moment when he started to panic.

“But we can’t be parents. We’ll be terrible. We don’t know what we’re doing. Oh my god. I didn’t mean to assume you were keeping it, you know I’ll support you and love you no matter what, but we are keeping it, right?” Clint had just come back from the range and was gesticulating widely, bow still in hand. At her nod he continued. “Oh thank god. But what are we going to do? We live in a tower with a super soldier, a god, a beserker and a sex-crazed billionaire. What kind of environment is that for a child? Well, better than the one we grew up in I suppose, but still, what if Child Services visits? Oh, and this is wonderful and I love you. But can you imagine what Tony will be teaching the kid?” Clint stopped for breath and panic turned to cold and rational fear. “With our enemies the kid would never be safe.”

Natasha walked up to him and put her finger to his lips. “Shhhh. Breathe, Clint. I love you too, this is wonderful, and we have time to plan. I don’t trust anyone else more to play the angles.”

Clint looked at her for a long moment and the fear in his eyes was replaced by a warm glow. He kissed the finger Natasha held to his lips and pulled her in for a a hug. “Our kid is going to be awesome. She’ll have my eyes and your grace. She’ll be unstoppable,” he whispered into her ear.

Natasha was not even remotely surprised by Clint’s one hundred and eighty degree turn. “She?”

“Uhuh. Or he. Doesn't matter.” Clint was practically bouncing with energy. “Let’s plan.”
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 01:07 am (UTC)
Re: Some meta and a ficlet
Clint's babbling sounds kind of exactly like my husband, back when ... Minus the super soldier, the berserker and the sex-crazed billionaire (and no doubt about "keeping it").

The billionaire-next-door would have come in handy when it came to procuring baby gear though ...
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[identity profile] cxw1065.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 12:38 am (UTC)
just randomly, as I haven't commented for far too long.

I LOVE YOU GUYS and all the thinky-thoughts you have about our fave pair.

you give me all the **feels**
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 01:40 am (UTC)
IKR?! Everyone here is AWESOME!!!!!

And your icon is making me hungry. /non-sequitur

:D
(no subject) - [identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 01:50 am (UTC)
[identity profile] sunny-serenity.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 01:56 am (UTC)
everyone needs to go read black widow: the name of the rose (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Widow-The-Name-Rose/dp/B005M4SOFM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353722005&sr=8-1&keywords=the+name+of+the+rose+marjorie+liu) by marjorie liu
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 02:34 am (UTC)
A-freaking-men. Best I've ever read, Marvel or DC.
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[identity profile] heartequals.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 02:37 am (UTC)
I have no thinky-thoughts beyond "THEIR KID IS TOTALLY MERIDA FROM BRAVE AND I WILL HAVE IT NO OTHER WAY". That said, thank you for the recs! I eat de-aged!Avenger fics for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and these are great!
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 02:47 am (UTC)
Yay!!! I'm glad it's not just me that likes them! What can I say? I find them charming. :D

And I am SO with you - Merida is totally Clint and Natasha's red-headed archer spawn and NO ONE can tell me different! :D
[identity profile] chrisfaithalin.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 03:36 am (UTC)
I just have to add my two cents on the topic.

I pretty much outlined my thoughts on this in my story Bad Sun, a story I wrote to try to explore them debating having kids, but here are the conclusions I came to about kids. I subscribe to the belief that Natasha can't have kids because of the RR. But, I do think they would maybe consider having kids. To me I see it being a very serious conversation, something they really think through, looking at all angles. I think they would come to the conclusion that they can't be spies forever, and that they would want something beyond their jobs. There has to be something more to life than saving the world over and over again.

That being said, I think they would go the adoption route, even if Natasha could have kids. This may be my own feelings projected on the characters, but I think they would like the idea of adoption. They have seen so many poor, abandoned children in the world they wouldn't want to bring more kids in the world when there are already kids that need a family. Also, because of their past I think they would want to adopt. That's just my thoughts though. Enjoyed reading all of the comments on this though. This is one of my favorite topics when it comes to these two.
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on November 24th, 2012 03:46 am (UTC)
It actually makes a lot of sense that these two would go to a third world country and adopt a child who really needed them.

It's been a blast to see everyone's thoughts on this topic - very cool!
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