31 May 2013 @ 04:44 pm
ATTF: Bodies  
Hello dear bar! Today we'll discuss bodies and everything related. Which means things like: looks, body awareness, being physically fit, exercise, weight, injuries, scars. Also, body modification and enhancement, abilities, skills, body perception; age or lack of ageing if your version of assassins have been serum'd. What are your views/thoughts/ideas about these things? How do you feel about casting? Personally, I love how casting added and played into lot of our headcanons, resulting in deceptively soft looks for Natasha when she needs it (Iron Man2); while she still manages to be amazing, quick, very effcient fighter; and solid - steady - strong/somewhat older than Natasha look for Clint.

After spending a year in this corner of fandom, I know that most of our writers here take bodies and physical things into account while writing fics. I know there are all kinds of fics, dealing with injuries, with the human Clint and Natasha VS superheroes (Steve, Bruce/Hulk, Thor), and various limitations that come with human body; or how our assassins use their bodies as tools (Natasha in particular, which means she has to be both fit and take lot of care to maintain her soft and nonthreatening, attractive appearance). We've also done a fair share of wonderfully written body worship.

I'll drop you just a few fic recs from the top of my head (admittedly, most of them revolve around body worship, I hope you guys can bring in more. I'm not the best reccer around here! :) ):

1. Simple together by [livejournal.com profile] _samalander, written for the prompt: One of the things Clint loves most about Natasha's body is how it isn't perfect. Teen and up audiences, no warnings. Very very sweet reflection on Natasha through Clint's eyes.

2. Appreciation by [livejournal.com profile] shenshen77, explicit, warnings for NSFW/sexual content. When Clint returns from a solo mission a little worse for wear, Natasha is more than a little surprised by how shook up by the thought of almost losing him she is. Cue cuddly assassins being cuddly and reaffirming bonds through touch, smell, taste and sound.. This has to be one of most beautiful body appreciation stories I've read. Wonderfully realistic as well and very sweet.

3. Human, slightly worn by [livejournal.com profile] sugar_fey. Rated mature, if I recall correctly there is sexual content but I think it's not graphic. Warnings: there are allusions to PTSD, since the fic deals with aftermath of New York battle and Clint being manipulated by Loki. I love this so much because it takes into account things like age, tramatic experiences and their cumulative effect on someone like Clint.

4. Sweat by SidheRa. Rated explicit, warnings for explicit sexual content. Clint and Natasha pull a crap surveillance detail, but they eventually figure out a great way to deal with the boredom. Pure and unapologetic body worship fic written from Natasha's POV, and very enjoyable read.

5. Miracle by [livejournal.com profile] frea_o. Rated teen and up audiences, no warnings. I love this story for many reasons, one of them being an original take on Natasha's enhanced body and how a sudden event during a mission changes it - and there are unexpected consequences.

6. Let him be by [livejournal.com profile] ashen_key. Rated gen, no warnings. Natasha takes care of Clint while he's having a migraine. I have a soft spot for this fic because I suffer from migraines and I enjoyed this take on both characters - one dealing with pretty bad pain and other doing their best to help out.

Things to remember:
1) Always label NSFW (Not Safe For Work) stuff in the title and post under a cut.
2) Fic and artwork needs to have a rating and warnings (or you can say that you’ve chosen not to use warnings).
3) For people with annoying internet connections, say in the title if a comment is graphic/images/gif-heavy and post picspams under a cut.
4) Have a damn good time! (Because if that’s not happening then this post has clearly failed.)
 
 
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[identity profile] shenshen77.livejournal.com on May 31st, 2013 10:06 pm (UTC)
Thanks for these wonderful recs and including me *blushes* I love all the other ones!!! And you sum them up perfectly, I have nothing to add.

In "Appreciation" I described Clint as "all lethal grace and lived in skin" and I stand by that. Natasha is just as lethally graceful, although her skin doesn't show it. And it's the flaws in their human bodies that the other loves and adores, the humanity.

He and Natasha dance a lovely, deadly dance when they fight, their bodies in perfect control. And I think that's what it all boils down to. Control. They both possess perfect body control.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, but it's been a long day :) And tomorrow is gonna be longish as well...
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 04:50 am (UTC)
I think you did a wonderful job in that fic, because it's not just omg hot dude, but it really shows the connection between them through her really thorough and intimate knowledge of his body (and scars, and why things hurt, and what feels good - just lovely fic).

Yeah - Natasha is all deception. She's designed to make you underestimate her.

Yes - one of the things they share is the body control, and I think, situations that challenge that control in some way result in interesting scenarios.

Hope tomorrow goes well!
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 05:18 am (UTC)
I will read this fic tomorrow... I love that line to describe Clint!
[identity profile] shenshen77.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 06:39 am (UTC)
Yay :D Let me know what you think :)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 11:14 pm (UTC)
aaaahhh, I love it!! Just love. Warm and squishy love. And I need to read it again at home, not as fun at work while I am trying to hide the computer screen from co-workers haha. I have a "thing" for age-difference mentions for these two. ;)
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 11:56 am (UTC)
Do read! It's a wonderful fic. :)
[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_samalander/ on May 31st, 2013 10:18 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the rec!

I want to add Boys Wanna Be Her (http://archiveofourown.org/works/458742) (Explicit, no warnings) to the recs - it's an amazing bodyswap Clint/Natasha that does a wonderful job of dealing with Clint's experiance of being in Natasha's body.
[identity profile] sugar-fey.livejournal.com on May 31st, 2013 10:50 pm (UTC)
Seconding the rec for 'Boys Wanna Be Her.' I never thought I'd enjoy a bodyswap so much!

Thanks for the rec, Anuna!
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 04:39 am (UTC)
No problem! And yay, rec! Bodyswap can be sooo much fun when written well.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 04:41 am (UTC)
No problem! I enjoyed your fic so much. :) aand I think I read that a while back and it's awesome (is that the one where Clint wants to learn how to walk in high heels?). Couldn't remember the name. Thank you for reccing it!
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 01:46 am (UTC)
The first time we ever see Natasha...I know she is supposed to be sexy and desirable to Tony (and she is)...but I think she looks SO STINKIN ADORABLE. I just want to eat her up. Those palazzo pants. Anyway. Soft, pale, curvy, beautiful, young, sexy. I hope they don't make her an older person in a young body like how she is in the comics, because I like her young. Anyone who is younger than me is young ;).

Speaking of that scene...the pics of her as a "lingerie model"...I am so curious. Did Natasha really pose for those pics? Or did they just photoshop her face on them? I'm not talking about ScarJo...I'm talking about Agent Romanoff. I'm just picturing Agent Coulson behind the scenes telling her to do different poses lol.

Avengers...the first scene...was she SUPPOSED to look like a cheap whore? Or was that jsut b/c she got roughed up? Haha, I can't get enough of Natasha. I love how when she isn't in spy mode, she is all jeans and leather, and when she is, she is girly girl. I love that she isn't a skinny mini.

Clint...opposite. Tan, weathered, a bit more "average" looking (well super sexy but at first glance more your typical guy). I had never heard of Jeremy Renner before I saw this movie (totally forgot about him in Thor) and wondered who he was and how he got a part with all these Hollywood hotshots (doh! I have now seen the light!). I couldn't really even understand the way he looks, if that makes any sense. Just didn't compute for me until I read some fics about him looking so serious and grim, until he cracked a smile, and then it was all sunshine and rainbows. And THEN I got it lol. Totally agree, he seems solid and strong and efficient. I don't think he is is aware of his looks or thinks about them. Its more the utility of his body.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 04:38 am (UTC)
I think she did that photoshoot professionally. Doubt she was crazy about it and I can imagine her snarking in her own head. Clint might have teased her after and you know, earned a glare when he asked if he can have one of the pics. I hope too they don't make her older person because I love ordinary human Natasha so much.

I think she looked better before she got roughed up (good, interesting question - the way she looks there always catches my eye and I wonder what happened before), The whole point there, I think, was to make her look helpless and in trouble and we'd all go O_O OMG, and then we see she really isn't helpless. People who caught her managed to catch her because she let them, because she fooled them. We see her pull the same thing on Loki later.

I like that they went with ordinary guy appearance for Clint. Also, middle aged, and still looking well and being able to do all those things he does. And yes, it makes sense, at first glance he's completely unremarkable. Perfect ordinary guy.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 05:27 am (UTC)
Yes Clint and Bruce are the 2 "average" looking Avengers. Another thing about their bodies... I think Clint has better control? Just the scene where Natasha flips Happy... What does everyone think about that? I can't figure out if she is... Aaaaahhhh brain freeze. What's the right word? But yeah. What does everyone think about that?

Also Anuna I am going to write a book to you tomorrow on your LJ page so get ready!
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 11:55 am (UTC)
Clint does have better control - Bruce's entire problem boils down to losing control. I think Clint and Bruce could have very interesting conversations.

Weeeel. When Natasha flips Happy - the scene serves to show us that there's more about Natasha than meets the eye. You know that rule, if there's a gun in first part of the play, someone is going to be shot in third? That kind of thing, it's foreshadowing. It introduces her as a fighter and the way she fights - people underestimate her and then it's too late. She's too quick and she uses element of surprise to her advantage, as she is physically a small woman. She's also very quick, very skillful, and plays dirty. *looks around for [livejournal.com profile] hufflepuffsneak who could explain it better,a nd who has contributed a lot to my Natasha headcanons* So, to me that scene establishes important things about her. I think she thought about what to do there, judged that flipping Happy over wouldn't ruin her cover and she did it because Happy really REALLY annoyed her.

I LOVE that scene.
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 04:37 pm (UTC)
I think we're on the same page here :) Natasha flipped Happy because she could and he was annoying her.

As to her fighting, she's trained ridiculously hard for a long period of time, in all sorts of circumstances, so she really can beat up people bigger than she is.

In fight scenes people often miss the importance of environment. It's like runners who train on hills verses those that don't racing over a hilly distance. The latter might be able to run a faster mile over a flat track, but the ones who train on hills will win. Natasha doesn't fight for keeps in a brightly lit sparring ring (though she can kick ass there, obviously). That's why her fight scenes in the Avengers are so important. In both the interrogation scene and the fight against Clint she is aware of her environment and uses it in a way her opponents don't.

And moving back to on-topic meta. What I love most about Natasha and Clint that even though they can do awesome things, their bodies are completely human (at least so far, depending on how the MCU decides to go). Human bodies really can achieve amazing things, but they collect scars and injuries in a way that Captain America and Thor just don't. Makes these characters way more real, and grounds the superhero movie, methinks.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 06:15 pm (UTC)
I love the point about the environment... she used whatever weapon is around her, the different surfaces and structure...I noticed with her fight with Clint, since he is also so deadly AND because she didn't want to kill him, she was leaping and dogding around him and coming up around him...she is a gymnast. Of course so is he with his trapeze-like leap off the building.

I think BECAUSE they are human, they impress me more than the other characters (who I also love)... I love Steve so much for his character and his leadership skills (and his eyelashs. ahem.) but his fighting skills WERE from "a bottle" as Tony said.
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 09:38 pm (UTC)
Well in Steve's case not the skills- the speed and strength needed to pull them off. He had to learn the skills, and I think he is the most human of the remaining Avengers.

I think there is a comic where Natasha makes the Olympics gymnastic team. So thinking of her as a gymnast is canon :)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 10:52 pm (UTC)
Awesome!!! Haha Natasha at the Olympics, that would be fantastic.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 05:54 pm (UTC)
Haha, I wrote that incorrectly. I meant I thought Clint had better control than Natasha. Good point about her flipping him because he annoyed her... that never occured to me. I thought she flipped him out of instict, because she was paying more attention to Tony and he surprised her. I thought she didn't want to reveal THAT aspect of her ability as Natalie Rushman. I need to watch the scene again.

[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 06:11 pm (UTC)
I think she was also trying to send Tony a "don't #$%^ with me" message. It didn't quite work out the way she might have intended ("I want one!") but that's because Tony is rather ... unpredictable. (ETA: Including in his seemingly surprising penchant for liking strong women.)

Edited 2013-06-01 06:12 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 06:18 pm (UTC)
Oh really? See I didn't get that at all. Again, I need to rewatch!
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 06:21 pm (UTC)
Maybe she was worried Tony was going to delve in too much with his research (SHIELD is good, but so is Tony), so she needed to distract him?
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 09:32 pm (UTC)
Hm. Not sure? Flipping Happy over served to make Tony more curious. Tony would go poking at Natalie Rushman and her past, but not all over SHIELD fields, because at the moment when she flips Happy, SHIELD isn't on Tony's mind.

Edited 2013-06-01 09:33 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 10:41 pm (UTC)
Oh absolutely. My point is that "Natatlie Rushman"'s files are created by SHIELD, right? I assumed the data on her, including the lingerie spread, was convoluted by SHIELD to give her an intriguing background so Tony would want to hire her as his PA. But if he delved too deeply, he might find out that it was all made up. Or maybe I misinterpreted the entire scene. I don't have the dvd and never heard the commentary so that was just my assumption of what happened.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 09:28 pm (UTC)
This is why Natasha is such an interesting character. I had to rewatch some scenes and think about them to draw conclusions - natasha isn't easy to read. I think, if she flipped Happy out of instinct, it would mean opposite of control. Instinct is an impulse. you don't think about it, you just act. Natasha rarely just acts - if ever in canon? someone else correct me if I'm wrong - in fact her every action is calculated and deliberate. Flipping Happy was like saying "don't mess with me" and she still had her cover. Also, i think it's very hard to surprise Natasha. She is usually two steps ahead of everyone else.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 10:47 pm (UTC)
Good point. I guess the one time I was curious was her "Is this dirty enough for you?" line to Tony. Is it just me, or did she not really seem into it? She was like "I'll say this line but its cheesy and I don't believe it". But maybe it was his response as well. It wasn't as seductive as it could have been.
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 04:29 pm (UTC)
I think Clint is in more of his emotions, but control is much more important to Natasha. She's spent a lot of her relatively short life regaining and keeping control of her body and her actions. In the scene where she flips Happy I think we see two important things: that she doesn't put up with shit when she doesn't have to working for S.H.I.E.L.D. and that she is extremely capable of using leverage and surprise against larger components.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 09:30 pm (UTC)
Yes, yes, yes and yes. I agree. She controls her body and she controls what people are allowed to do (to her), how they're going to approach her, if she's going to let them annoy her - and she definitely doesn't put up with anyone's shit.
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 11:11 am (UTC)
The thing that strikes me about both of them is that their bodies are tools. They know exactly what they are capable of, and have control over every centimetre, every muscle.

For Natasha, the trampy look at the beginning of the movie is the same as the demure office worker look she puts on in IM3 -- a means to an end. She will hold her body in such a manner as to extract what she needs from the moment (and her mark), including being prepared to absorb ropes and slaps. Her body is part of the package, an extension of her mind. When she smiles for real, the sun rises in her eyes (that scene in the med bay) -- but you know it is because she allows it to be there, to be seen.

Same with Clint. He's unremarkable when he needs to blend into the environment, and knows where he's best deployed ("I see better from a distance"). But when it comes to action he is in absolute control, whether it's standing at the open bay of an aircraft in flight to make a shot (notice the way he never follows the arrow's path with his eyes, he always looks to the target?), to slide underneath firing guns still shooting, or to hurl himself off a burning building and twist in midair to fire that grappling shot.

Total control. Which makes you wonder what they can/would do with those bodies at other times. Here's how I saw it in my "post New Yorkfirst time" fic (pretty tame stuff --I can't write explicit because reasons): Their minds and their bodies are tools, finely honed instruments they inhabit and control with precision, and always to calculated effect. But maybe there are moments that aren’t about control, when it’s just about the feeling of skin on warm skin; lips running over callouses and spots that are surprisingly soft; tongues, dipping and tasting; small, involuntary sounds, gradually increasing as they become lost in each other.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 11:47 am (UTC)
Thinky! Lots of thinky here.
Yes, as close to total control as possible. I imagine that's why they always train and keep themselves sharp, both in body and in mind. There's no perfection with human beings, but I believe they're as close to perfection as it gets.

Keeping body in control seems to come hand in hand with keeping temper in control, and I think Clint is actually better at that, if we go with military sniper background for him. A guy with a sniper can't have a temper, or be impulsive to the point where he lashes out of control if someone annoys him - mind on task first, it's nicely shown in Thor, even if it's a very short scene there. He never took his aim or his eyes off Thor. (Which is why I can't see him as someone with volatile temper when he's angry - he withdraws when he doesn't feel well, we've seen that in canon.) We've seen Natasha losing her temper, though, but not to the point of endangering mission. Neither would endanger mission, so yes, under the circumstances of a mission, they tend to control all of their actions/reactions.

And yes, they both do treat their bodies like tools, and I think that means, among other things, taking good care of one's health. Otherwise the tool wouldn't function very well, they wouldn't be able to perform what they're supposed to perform - I think that involves lots of body awareness and responsibility, and then there I can imagine human conflict over being incapacitated in some way - knowing one isn't fit for a mission - not being able to be in control like they usually are. Which would be worse for Natasha, because control, I think, is a big issue for her, considering her past with Red Room. (which is one of the things I like to poke at with Natasha in family/pregnancy fics. She doesn't particularly enjoy the loss of control, but she likes having babies, which I see as ultimate reclaiming of her own life.)

Lots of thinky to be had! Bodies define everyone in more ways than we're normally aware of. I think people like them don't take their bodies for granted.
[identity profile] sherarara.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 02:15 pm (UTC)
Heya!

Thanks for reccing me up there! "Sweat" seems to get a lot of attention for some strange reason, and I'm always happy to see that people liked it :-)

*relurks*
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 03:10 pm (UTC)
Hi there! And you're welcome! It's a great body - appreciation story. :D
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 04:39 pm (UTC)
"Sweat" and "Long Time No See" are my favourites of yours.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on June 1st, 2013 11:15 pm (UTC)
Can I be really off topic? How do I get a avatar? I feel so naked without one!
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on June 2nd, 2013 02:14 am (UTC)
Cruise the internet and save some images you like. Then go into your LJ account (Manage Account) and click on "userpics". Upload your images -- I think you get to store 35 with an unpaid LJ account. Make sure you give them a name so you can tell them apart when you want to choose one. It's easy; even I managed it, and I'm a total dinosaur when it comes to computer/internet stuff. :-)