Perfect topic!

Clint just seems like a super independent person personality-wise to me...like he does what he wants even when directed by SHIELD. Natasha, on the other hand, seems to do what she is told. When Nick Fury said "she is comfortable with everything" it makes me think that she doesn't question her orders.

To expand on this, I wonder if its b/c she trusted SHIELD more than she trusted herself? Or maybe she just trusted Fury? SLJ mentioned that Nat is like a daughter to Fury. I am SOOOO curious about her relationship with Clint too...like does she trust his judgement? Is she usually at odds with him (like Tony/Pepper?) When I first saw The Avengers, I assumed they had a mentor/mentee type of relationship by the way she talked to him/interacted with him (and the age difference). But in the comics its not like that at all. So yeah. Very curious.

I usually see her getting along well with Clint, even though she tries to get a bit under his skin. It's more playful than when she does it with other people, mainly from the way Clint reacts rather than her changing her behavior.

I think she used to trust Fury more than herself. That's what made the revelation in Cap 2 so traumatic for her, she lost the trust in Fury and only has her own judgment left.

Interesting concept. I can see how Natasha might me more inclined to follow orders, but at the same time when she cut loose from the Red Room she would have embraced the freedom from their dictates. Clint learned to distrust authority early on, and may actually go a bit far in defying it at times - at least in the comics. He certainly doesn't take shit from anyone when it comes to how he does his job ("Oh, I see better from a distance." "Do I take him out, or are you gonna send in some more guys for him to beat up?"). I played with his approach to taking orders in one of my fics, "In the Service". (Sorry. Am on bb and can't link.)

Good point about the Red Room. I think she does have a great amount of independence and resiliency and strength. But its...limited? Or rather maybe she isn't so aware of her own strength as a person. I think we are going to see that awareness grow in the next movie.

I agree about Clint. He seems to march to his own drum, no apology.

I dunno. I always think of them both as being very independant. But maybe like a kite. Freedom of the skies but attached to the land. Something tethering them back somewhere (each other? I'd say yes maybe, seeing as Natasha formed the Avengers to get Clint back. To SHIELD? Well, they do (did) both work for SHIELD so there's a tether there in some respects). But at the same time, they can cut ties if they want. They need to know they can cut the ties if they want. They want to be free and want to belong at the same time. So they're given leeway in order to be kept around (Clint defied orders to bring Natasha in). They are given, or maybe given the allusion?, of having more freedom than they perhaps do. But then again, I also think they would take freedom, if they weren't handed it. I think there's an element of the need to be in control too, and about choice (Natasha's "I thought I knew who's orders I was taking") and about trust.

But I also think there's an independance of thought as well. Like... have you seen/read the Hunger Games? Peeta says "I want to find a way to show that they don't own me, that if I die, I'm still me." Coulson asks Natasha to go to get Bruce from India for Fury's Avengers Inititive. And she did, but she went for Clint not for Fury or Coulson. So I have a feeling there's an element of "yes, I'll do the thing, but I'm doing it for reasons X, Y and Z and no what you say". And Obviously that can be manipulated - probably why Coulson said "Barton's been compromised" in the frist place. But again... another tether.

Anyhoo...

Interesting. So do you think if Barton wasn't involved and she got the same order to get Bruce that she might not have done it? I think Barton and Steve might not, but I got the impression that Nat would (again, from that singular line of Fury's.) But then choosing to follow orders could be a sign of indepedence as well...it is a choice after all. I guess I typically throw "independence" in with NOT following orders although it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.

I don't know, because there isn't a version where Clint isn't involved. But yeah she probably would, but her reasons would be different.

Sort of like that line from the GotG trailer:
"Why would you want to save the universe?"
"Because I'm one of the idiots who lives in it!"

True and her reasons for following orders might be due to her want to wipe the red out of her ledger. Like she said, she thought she was going straight with SHIELD.

I agree that ndependence is about choice., for both of them. Following or disregarding orders -- two sides of the same coin if it's the choice they made. "Doors open from both sides," always. And when the choice is taken, when they find out they have been betrayed -- watch out, world.

In my head canon, it's the removal of free will that is what would have traumatized Clint most about Loki's "takeover."

I totally agree with you. Clint would hate the thought of being controlled more than even attacking people.

Both of them seem to be dead set on maintaining their independence. Natasha was controlled by Petrovich and everyone in the Red Room so she wants to know who she is separate from what other people want from her. Clint was also manipulated by his family and on top of that just had his mind taken over by a god who forced him to attack his allies. He has always had issues with it and the way I see it everything is welling up now. He's probably undergoing quite the crisis, though he will never admit it.