Love Is For Children - LJ Changes Discussion

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12 April 2017 @ 11:37 pm

LJ Changes Discussion

For those who might not be aware, since the start of 2017 there have been changes to Livejournal with servers moving to Russia and, most recently, a change in LJ Terms & Conditions. We would like to share with you some of our thoughts on this and then we would like the community's input, with a view to possibly making some changes. Your mods may be manning the bar, but without all of YOU there is no community. Your views are important so please do comment after reading. Thank you.

Please be aware that your mods are nowhere near the likes of Tony Stark in technical knowledge and futurist thinking, however: never asumme that information you post on any social media is entirely private. Social media companies hold the rights to your information (see: instagram owns all your photos, see: you can never completely delete your Facebook). In addition, unless you are very, very good there will be someone better than you who can crack your security; we can take precautions but we are not immune. This has not changed with LJ. It's just that instead of LJ being in Trump's America it's now in Putin's Russia. Your opinions on those administrations and on your online rights associated with companies located within them are your own.

Our Position: Your mods are not panicking, but we are wary of these changes. They do not at first glance impact the main activities of this community - a main change in the T&Cs concerns politics for example - but with things such as this and Russia's LBGTQ rights record we are wary. We also, of course, have to take into account our members. If the majority of you move elsewhere then it would make sense for the community to follow the community.

Dreamwidth: An alternate social media site that we could host the community on is Dreamwidth. It is relatively easy to import a community there from LJ. There are pros and cons to Dreamwidth vs LJ and these are different for personal journals and communities. KEY POINTS: we could import the entire community including all of the comments to Dreamwidth. You can't crosspost on communities and future comments would not crosspost, although we could re-import the community on a semi-regular basis. Dreamwidth has an OpenID log in system so that you can comment there using an LJ, and other, online identities - you do NOT have to have a personal Dreamwidth account to post to a Dreamwidth community (although it makes it easier). None of your mods are familiar with Dreamwidth and there may be stumbling blocks that we wouldn't know about until we trip over them.

Options under consideration:

1) We keep the community on LJ. We back it up on Dreamwidth and re-import to Dreamwidth on a semi-regular basis to keep it current. We do not moderate or use the Dreamwidth version. It remains inactive unless needed in the future.

2) We keep the LJ community AND have a Dreamwidth community. How this would work: we re-import semi-regularly to Dreamwidth, we comment on both, we moderate both, we keep both active. Dreamwidth would have BOTH LJ and Dreamwidth posts. LJ would just have LJ posts. Dreamwidth would (hopefully) end up with the comments from both. LJ would just have LJ comments.

3) We move the community to Dreamwidth and maintain a presence on LJ. Dreamwidth would be the main community but monthly/ on a semi-regular basis we would post a summary post to LJ with links to Dreamwidth posts and activity, so people on LJ would know what was going on and could either comment/chat on LJ or use OpenID to comment on Dreamwidth.

4) We move to Dreamwidth completely. We archive the LJ version and don't use it at all.

For easy commenting you can copy and paste the following. Or you can just comment with whatever you think about all of this. The important thing is that we have a discussion as a community, so please do comment. There is no deadline for this post and we open to changing our minds (again) in the future. However, if you could comment before MONDAY 17th APRIL that would be helpful.

PLEASE NOTE: please be respectful of other people's opinions, emotions, and countries. Think debate, not argument. Thank you.

Your Mods

Tags: admin stuff, discussion post, psas should have a tag

32 comments | Leave a comment

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kiss-me-cassie.livejournal.com on April 13th, 2017 12:24 am (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination?
Combination. I am keeping my LJ to read & comment to friends who are still here and for comms like this. I do not plan on posting any new content to my personal LJ and will do that on DW now. (Not that I post a whole lot anyhow. A few times a month?)

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation?
I would be ok with 1, 3, or 4. 2 does not seem viable long term. I think 1 and 3 are both very good ideas for now and can always change to 4 later?

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active?Same either way. It's not going to effect my activity. This space is one of a few different reasons I am not deleting my LJ entirely.

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered? Considering that I, personally, write a lot of smut and quite a bit of OT3 that contains slash, there is a certain bad taste in my mouth about using LJ. Although any fic would be at A03 itself and not here, so I guess that wouldn't matter. Just talking it out a bit.

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:07 am (UTC)

Thank you for commenting! And for sticking with us :)

Is anyone else concerned about smut and OT3, or rather rating levels?

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brickhousewench.livejournal.com on April 13th, 2017 12:38 am (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination?
I mostly lurk here, but I'll comment anyway. I've already made my move to Dreamwidth and am in the process of shutting down my LiveJournal (although I plan to keep reading and commenting here until the last of my friends and communities is gone).

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation?
I'm glad that all of your options include backing up the community, and would be fine with any of them. Considering the Russian stance that even mentioning that LGBTQ folks exist is against the law, I think you're being prudent. I think one and four would be easiest to maintain, and possibly less confusing than having one foot in each place.

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active?
I mostly lurk, as I'm pretty busy with work, so my presence probably won't change either way.

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered?
Appreciate the fact that the mods are polling members. *cheers you*

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:10 am (UTC)

Thank you for commenting! Personally, I think with the Russian stance on LGBTQ it's weighing up how much of an impact that will have in real terms, but also if people want to be on a platform that in any way may be seen as supporting that.

Options 2 and 3 would be more work, but we wanted to give the full range of what we were thinking and if they're what people prefer we would make it work.

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crystallitanie.livejournal.com on April 13th, 2017 12:41 pm (UTC)

I only created an LJ account to receive notifications for this place (blogging isn't really my thing), so to answer all your questions, it wouldn't make any difference to me. If the community is moved to DW, I'll just figure the most convenient way to follow and post there, with or without an account.

That being said, I'd like to say that this post is yet another reason why I think this place is awesome. :)

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:13 am (UTC)

Thanks for commenting!

We try to keep it so :)

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gsparkle on April 13th, 2017 07:40 pm (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination?
I literally only created this account to join this community, so I am perfectly content to move elsewhere!

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation?
Personally, I think the options besides 1 and 4 sound like a lot of work. Again, I don't have anything on my personal lj, so this isn't as big for me as it is for others who have a lot of things to back, but I am 100% team option 4.

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active?
I'll go wherever the comm goes, essentially :)

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered?
I appreciate this conversation/invitation to discuss this major decision!

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:15 am (UTC)

People saying they only joined LJ for this comm is my smiling thing of the day it seems *grins*.

2 and 3 would be more work, but we wanted to offer all the options we were thinking about and if they were preferred we'd make it work. We appreciate the consideration though!

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alphaflyer.livejournal.com on April 13th, 2017 08:41 pm (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination? Backing up on DW (as soon as the system lets me - it seems to be taking forever and I think I'll lose all my picspam posts, sigh), but keeping my LJ. I'll probably cross post.

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation? 2 and 3 sound like an awful lot of mod work - you sure you want that? I'd go for 1 or 4 (4 provided we get to keep the banners...)

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active? I love this comm and will follow it anywhere. That's what bookmarks are for!

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered? Well, we all adore one particular Russian, so it would be kind of hypocritical to run for the hills just because the server is there now. Frankly, this is not a site that will be of particular interest to Monsieur Poutine.

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:21 am (UTC)

2 and 3 would be more work - 3 less than 2. and I'd envision it as an extension of the monthly news post that we already do - but we wanted to offer all the options that we were thinking about and we would make whatever was preferred work.

Good question about the banners. DW FAQ states that custom layouts are available, although options may be limited unless the account/comm is a paid one, and because of the slightly different code I would have to do some playing around. Which is to say I think we'd be okay, but until I actually have a go I make no guarantees.

Personally, I think it's weighing up how much real impact this will have on the comm, but also if people will still want to be in support of a platform that in its T&Cs is in support of a particular stance on politics and LGTBQ rights, and then the point of this post, being in which case how many people will be here to form the comm? I don't think there would be a huge - if any - impact on the comm, but principles are another thing, and I have no idea about the numbers. Although it seems most people are now at least backing up.

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whiskyinmind.livejournal.com on April 14th, 2017 04:45 pm (UTC)

I'm moving to DW so my personal preference would be for the option to have DW as the main comm and maybe monthly summaries on the eljay comm.

(Replying from my phone, hence the lack of copy/paste)

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:22 am (UTC)

Thank you for commenting!

(Also I really like that pretty icon!)

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sgteam14283.livejournal.com on April 15th, 2017 02:30 am (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination?
I'm considering junking my LJ just because I hardly post on here anymore and am still on here for this community only but am kicking around the idea of moving to Dreamwidth (if the community moves there).

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation?
I vote for either 3 or 4

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active?
probably the same level, lurking and then participating in some of the write-a-thons.

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered?

Huge Thank You to the mods for opening this discussion because imo with the new sketchy T&C LJ has come up with it needs to be had.

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:22 am (UTC)

Thanks for commenting :)

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jackwabbit.livejournal.com on April 16th, 2017 01:06 am (UTC)

I'm likely moving to DW, despite my reluctance to leave the old homestead. So, that makes the most sense to me.

I think having DW be the primary community and doing LJ summary posts is the best compromise.

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:24 am (UTC)

Thanks for commenting. Personally I share your reluctance, but if there's no people there's no community, hence discussion needed!

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jackwabbit.livejournal.com on April 17th, 2017 12:20 pm (UTC)

I'm only reluctant because I hate change and because I'm sad to leave my comfortable home.

But I can't abide bigotry and hate, and it is so quiet it echoes here, so...

All social media platforms have a built-in expiry date. Just how it is.

Sigh

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kiss-me-cassie.livejournal.com on April 17th, 2017 12:50 pm (UTC)

This is so very to the point and super accurate. Sigh.

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inkvoices: avengers:well you're not wrong

inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 08:31 pm (UTC)

Same *sigh*. But I think as long as we can hold a community together we'll be okay regardless of where we live :)

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franztastisch on April 16th, 2017 10:49 am (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination? Keeping LJ, backing up in DW. unless everyone migrates. Since I stopped using Tumblr, i've lost contact with a lot of people, I'd like to maintain the online friends I'm still in contact with.

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation? To be honest, I'd go with option one. But mostly because that's what I'm doing. Also, I am 100% sure that the Russian gov doesn't actually think LJ is hot shit. LJ has been getting emptier by the day and if it's Russian owned, purges are just going to damage their investment. Maybe I'm being blinkered, but I don't think it's as bad as we think.

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active? I'll be as active as I am now, which is to say, not hugely. But I WILL stay. I love this place.

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered? I'd like some kind of discussion about backing up LJ only fics on a communal b_c AO3 account. It's something I'd be happy to help with, but obviously, it depends on what the original authors think of it - if we can contact them. Anon posting it maybe?

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:34 am (UTC)

Personally I don't think the changes will have a huge impact on us, but there's also people's principles and if people move then there's no people to form a comm, hence discussion needed :)

Interesting thought on backing up LJ only fics. There'd have to be a discussion around if this would be a be_compromised account or a general LJ backup account with some fics tagged as be_compromised or included in be_compromised collections - I think there's a niche here for all LJ, not just be_compromised? The original writers would have to be contacted and agree, plus credit would have to be appropriately given. Which, as most fic writers use AO3 these days you might find the LJ only fics are authors who don't want those fics on another archive or aren't active/contactable anymore, but you'd have to find that out. And it'd take work - you'd need a list of those fics, who to contact, organise it, upload it... I don't think the be_compromised mods have the time, to be honest, although again we could discuss. If anyone wanted to take this on as a general LJ backup project though, possibly an idea?

Perhaps in the meantime, or as a starting point, a post with links to LJ only fics relevant to be_compromised so people could download them if they wanted? Inviting commenting with other LJ only known fics relevant to our interests?

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franztastisch on April 17th, 2017 01:31 pm (UTC)

I mean, that why I think a discussion would be good. Because there are some fantastic fics on this comm that are posted only to this comm (I've searched for some when i was fixing my bookmarks and yeah... for some, this is literally the only place their housed). I understand that it'll be a big undertaking but maybe the comm would think it's worth it and we could sort of... group tackle it? I dunno. But I think a discussion might be worth having.

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 08:33 pm (UTC)

Maybe start with a post to collect fics that are on be_compromised LJ only then, with some that you've spotted and an invite for others to join the job? If you wanted to kick that off as a starting point and a wider discussion about LJ fics as backup...? Maybe as an ATTF???

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i was born difficult for myself: Marvel Clint/Kate shoulder shooting

geckoholic on April 16th, 2017 03:32 pm (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination? I'm basically done with LJ. For now I'm keeping the journal itself, in a sense of transition and because I'm not ready to let go of all means to contact the people I met here and who I haven't yet added anywhere else, but I have considered deleting my account and I might still do so in the future, I'm letting my paid run out, and even the transitional presence I have here depends on workarounds for the new TOS because I have no plans of agreeing to them. So yeah. Dreamwidth it is for me, and crossposting to LJ is turned off now too .

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation? 4

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active? Basically the same level if we move. Probably not at all if the comm stays on LJ. I used to check both regularly, now I will only be checking Dreamwidth.

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered? Regardless of what y'all decide, I want to give a BIG SMOOCH to everyone I met here, and if you have a Dreamwidth account, come see me under the same name. ♥

Edited 2017-04-16 03:35 pm (UTC)

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:35 am (UTC)

Thank you for commenting! And all the smmoches :)

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spyforaday.livejournal.com on April 16th, 2017 05:37 pm (UTC)

Thanks for asking! I will follow this comm anywhere. It's the only reason I discovered LJ in the first place. Being tech-challenged, the thought of learning a new service like DW is a little intimidating, but I will follow this bar and its amazing patrons across the ~~universe~~ internet to feed my addiction and stay in touch. And again, thanks for asking.

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 02:36 am (UTC)

Thanks for commening :) DW is based on LJ's original code and diverted slightly, so the basic building blocks are the same. Also you can comment using OpenID with your LJ account if you'd rather not learn a new system - I've used that in the past.

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kiss-me-cassie.livejournal.com on April 17th, 2017 12:52 pm (UTC)

What inkvoices said! DW is pretty much a lower key mirror of LJ so there isn't much learning curve. Not like tumblr, which is... challenging to learn to say the least. ;)

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inkvoices on April 17th, 2017 08:34 pm (UTC)

Tumblr just doesn't work for me. I LOVE the pretty pictures and some of the content, but the continuous scroll, duplicate posts, and how difficult it is to have a back and forth coversation, argh.

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sugar-fey.livejournal.com on April 17th, 2017 11:21 pm (UTC)

Can I just say that all the comments about people joining/staying on LJ specifically for this community have made my heart grow three sizes? I LOVE YOU AAAAALLLLLL.

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esgeee.livejournal.com on April 18th, 2017 12:40 am (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination? I do not use my personal LJ anymore but I did create a DW account w/ the same username in case I wanted to have the option later on.

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation? THREE b/c LJ hasn't gotten weird enough to completely switch over yet imo but two seems hard to sustain!! However, I moderate a comm and we use both LJ and DW but bc it's a fanfic fest blog, it's very easy to manage lol.

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active? I'm not super active anyway so I think my involvement in the comm would stay the same!!

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered? thanks for polling!

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perpetuations.livejournal.com on April 18th, 2017 06:36 am (UTC)

Are you planning to keep your personal LJ or move it to Dreamwidth or elsewhere? Or some combination? If you guys move, I'll move! I'll echo the comments of many here - I joined for the comm :D

Of the above options for the community, would you prefer ONE/TWO/THREE/FOUR/some variation? I think one, or three.

If the comm continues on LJ and you move your personal journal to Dreamwidth OR if the comm moves to Dreamwidth and you keep your personal journal on LJ, would you still be active in the community? Or more active, less active? No difference, as I'm barely here anyways, save for the comm.

Other thoughts and/or things you would like to be considered? I'm quite wary about Russia's stance on LGBTQ+ issues, and if everyone moves to dreamwidth, I really don't mind moving there :)

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