Agreed!!! I’m so confused on the time travel and what it means. Because Loki took off with the tesseract at one point and then Steve messed with the timeline too.... also what did he say when little niece Sharon was born lol. But honestly I feel the most confused over Steve at the end bc.... he wasn’t supposed to do that. That was what the film kept telling us all along.

I read an interesting Nerdist article about this today (because I've been furiously looking at ALL THE THINGS about the movie since I couldn't talk about it with anyone except The Bar and one lady at work but we kept getting shushed every time we brought up anything in our whispering) that talked about how Cap has been a man out of time and he set everything right before finally doing this one little jaunt. My thought process has been since reading it that, in a way, he sets things right with getting back into his time line. He just had to keep away when all the good bits were happening that Original Cap was involved in.

I also really liked getting to see that the Avengers had help in the Battle of New York when we see The Ancient One doing their bit to help out. It makes me think that maybe this Old Cap was there, doing a bit to help out when he could, watching out for his friends.

But Old Cap would have known about Bucky the whole time. How could he have set on that bit of information for this long? But there's also a part of me that thinks that Bucky wasn't surprised by Old Cap being there so maybe Old Cap insinuated himself into the Bucky timeline.

Ack. I'm rambling!

I read a bit on tumblr about aging!Steve watching TV during the Kennedy assassination, and going "Oh, that Bucky..."

LOL

I have been twisting my brain in knots with my cinema buddy trying to understand how time travel works in the film. (I mean, I also watch doctor who so I can go with wibley wobbley timey wimey if that's the answer, ha.)

So. Bruce says that whenever you travel to the past or future your present becomes your past and cannot be altered. Negating all other time travel film theories lol. Meaning Nebula can shoot her past self and still be alive. Okay.

The Ancient One tells Bruce that if he takes the stones to his timeline then hers will be impacted. Badly. (Although side note that Strange said 1 in 14 however many chances to beat Thanos so any other timeline presumably ends badly, sorry guys.) So Loki escaping with the Tesseract and Cap knowing Bucky is alive (because I agree with you that he wouldn't have just sat on that info) must spin off into seperate timelines. Meaning when the Time Hesit crew return to their present with the stones nothing that happened in THEIR past timeline has changed. Is how I think that works.

When Cap takes the stones back he says about 'clipping the branches' so there are no 'alternate realities'. Recalling how the Ancient One's golden path of time thingy merged back together when the stones are returned I THINK that means any alternate timelines cease to exist. (BUT. My brain twists here because if you can't change anything that's in your past then you can't change there being extra timelines now...???)

But okay, so Steve then stays in the past in the Thanos destroyed timeline. Which has to be the case if he ends up on the bench at the end. Otherwise old!Steve would have arrived in the time machine using pym particles to travel from his new timeline. (I think???) In order for that timeline to stay as it is Steve would have had to live a VERY quiet life. (If he did cause a ripple he can't change the 'past' so would he end up in a different timeline???) Do I believe that STEVE ROGERS wouldn't cause a single ripple? Part of me is HELL NO. Part of me is yes if he knew he had to, for that 1 in 14 whatever chance to work. And that maybe finally for him the war was over and he got his rest.

I like your idea of Steve being perpetually this man out of time and maybe putting himself back into the timeline. I mean he was in ice for 70 odd years so.

My other brain twister is: if Scott spends 5 hours in the quantum realm and that's 5 years then in Ant Man shouldn't Jan's 30 years in the quantum relam be 30 hours? But then there's that scene where Scott comes back at different ages. And they talk about luck for when you get pulled out and not being able tk navigate the quantum realm (before this film) so I can handwave it. Although I would love tk read a fic where a younger Jan gets pulled out in Ant-Man and the Wasp, to see how that wpuld change things and having a women out of time.

"But then there's that scene where Scott comes back at different ages"

Tony said they were pushing Time through Scott instead of pushing Scott through Time for that one. I distinctly remember putting that little gem away for a rainy day!

True! Argh time travel.

There's a Mashable article about their theory on time in the movie and now my head aches and my eyes hurt.

If Thanos from the past came into the future and is dusted, he is no longer a threat to the world starting in 2012. Loki scampered away with the Tesseract without having any sort of meaningful, brotherly conversations with Thor... Have the Russos set him up as a "new" big bad in a world that is similar to pre-Infinity War? And what is Ronan the Accuser like without Thanos around?

But if you can't change your past there was still a Thanos in 2012 and Loki was still imprisoned on Asgard so does that mean the 'new' past is an alternate timeline? Yup. Headache lol.

Also you've just reminded me of Ronan's face at the end of Captain Marvel when Carol shows up lol. And the guy eventually gets defeated in Gaurdians by a dance off. Guy keeps getting hilariously beaten.

And if Loki ran off with the Tesseract in 2012 who was the guy who went up in Central Park, sat in jail in Asgard and died all hero-like on the ship? One of his live-model decoys?

But that's a different timeline or something, right? Because that has to still happen because it's in the past... ow my head lol

My understanding was that when Steve stayed in the past, he created a branch reality (all realities overlap to create the timeline blah blah blah) and the real mystery is how he got back on to the Thanos destroyed timeline to be on that bench by the lake.

In fact, the Russos confirmed this is what’s going on and that’s the intended mystery.

Sorry! That was me. I got logged out but didn’t realize it.

Here’s the source for the Russo’s stuff if you want it https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

They also did a talk at the Smithsonian and tried to explain the principles of time travel in Endgame https://www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-russos-mcu-time-travel-rules/

Important to note that the Christopher Markus. Stephen McFeely disagree with the Russos regarding where Cap was (main timeline vs a branch reality).

Edited 2019-05-05 04:50 am (UTC)

OH that's interesting. Thank you for the links! Huh well I suppose when they were travelling to other places they didn't need a time travel machine where they arrived in the other time so Steve could have saved and uaed pym particles and his suit to travel from one timeline to another at the end... ?