I'm going to take this off a slight side rant- I love reading fic because well it's easy, quick, often amusing, and something that doesn't involve me having to entertain myself.

But one of the things I almost notice in anything based off the movieverse is like the almost instant friendship after the battle because of the battle. I get the warriors in arms thing but this isn't ancient Greece.

So this all ties into when I'm sitting there watching the movie, the only familiarity or closeness I really see is between Coulson and Stark and Pepper; Clint and Natasha. Bruce and Tony have a moment, Hulk and Iron Man have a moment. Steve and the team have a moment. Thor and Loki have antagonist moments and then the movie's over.

We know that's not true though because we see Clint and Coulson in Thor. But when Natasha talks to Steve about him-- it's almost like she considers him to be a comic relief. But Clint just did whatever Coulson asked in Thor so obviously he's more the 'do what I'm told and ask later' kind of person.

That's why I think there my favourite two as a ship was when I watching the movie only Clint and Natasha seemed to really have any kind of connection outside of course the obvious Tony/Pepper and the last minute Coulson/Stark/Potts friendship.

With that said their hired guns so they probably are the most likely to fit into any situation because it can be always it's their job. Natasha in Russia, Clint not going after Thor, Natasha watching Stark- all tasks they get asked to perform. Who would be the most adaptable the person with the free choice... Stark or the two people getting a paycheque?

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Now going back to fandom, I prefer reading team fics because I loved the movie. Why have an Avengers fic without the team? I do read stand alones and hey even canon pre movies but ultimately I like seeing the team involved in some way shape or form.

I don't write a lot for many reasons most popular reason is I suck and I know I suck. 2nd reason is I could speak English better. 3rd reason I'm an artist. But when I do, they 90% are christmasy exchange fics or kinkmeme fics without porn because I like to challenge what little writing capability I have. And it's very small but I try.

That being said-- the challenges I have accepted involved the entire team minus one attempt at a crossover since I had never done in the 12 years since I had written my first fic (star wars) and that fic involved Clint. Every fic I've done in Marvel have involved Clint and Natasha front in centre because I like how they fit into the mold more than everyone else. Stark is his own hero, Steve is the kid you feel sorry for, Thor is the jolly alien, and Bruce is the tragic anti-hero. But besides putting them first-- I go with situational characterization.

I borrow from the comics if the prompt leans that way, Marvel canon 90% of the time (Marvel wiki basically tells me what facts to take into account and which to discard), and 10% whatever works to what little advantages I have as a writer. So that means Clint and Natasha have to like 70s rock music because I little absolutely nothing about modern music, sarcasm goes a long way (because to me it comes natural-- truthfully if we played who are you the avengers version I probably most like Stark painful as that is to admit), and drinking is avoided almost entirely because I know next to nothing about it (until recently when I asked for some information).

That in mind, it's impossible for to decide who a prankster is vs. the grumpy one. I see them all fitting together with everyone having reluctant feelings about except maybe Clint who I think in my head would just do it because someone told him to.

....

Wow so that went totally off topic-- sort of.

Yeah I definitely agree - as much as we all wanted to see the team immediately BECOME the team, they separate at the end of the movie. There are still definite connections between them, but they're not immediately a unit. They can work that way, but it's not second nature. Not yet anyway.

This is just the thing that I loved so much - the fact that they don't magically bond on the spot, but you can see there's still a road ahead for them to travel. in my opinion it's a more realistic approach, and maybe even a bold move (but we are getting another film, and I expect we'll going to see said team dynamic developing.) I say it's a bold move because "instant team love" seems to be a more popular, more common approach (but I love that approach as well - I ahve a soft spot for teams and bonding.)

Yeah I agree. It always feels like it means more that way to me - there's time to know each others flaws on top of their strengths and get to actively CHOOSE to become friends as well as comrades.

Which I just find the stronger relationship. That's my problem with the whole "Love at First Sight" thing too - lust at first sight works. But love is so SO much more than appearance, and it's not possible to know and understand that more without time.

Stark is his own hero, Steve is the kid you feel sorry for, Thor is the jolly alien, and Bruce is the tragic anti-hero.

That's an interesting take. I see them all like anti heroes of sorts, because there is sadness to all of them - to me it feels like Tony doesn't really believe he is a hero. he's a guy who can cut the wire, but not the hero, that's reserved for Steve, who is bitter and sad and lost because everything he knew, his entire life, all of his friends, culture, reality? It was taken away from him and he feels like an alien in his own world which had spun forward without him. I really feel for him, since I can relate to how he's feeling.

Bruce is this brilliant man and a good person, and also a kind person, but after his accident he can't control himself. Or he can, but just barely. He thinks of himself as a monster, because that's how many people see him - this absolutely horrible and dangerous monster. he is aware how damage he can do, so he removes himself from human company and people he loves because he doesn't want to hurt them. Thor's life might have been the best, but I think it's obvious that the loss of a brother - and he still thinks of Loki as a brother - is really tearing him. We all know what Clint and Natasha have been through, and even though they are on SHIELD's payroll, I'd say the movie focuses on each character's humanity and basic human needs. So it's really interesting to look at how Clint and Natasha interact with the rest of the Avengers, and imagine (and write) about how it might continue after the film, because they're ultimately human. I think they have the hardest time accepting the team and team!trust, because they're used to trusting each other; so establishing true team dynamic always takes time and struggle, and it might be easier for Clint - he's lived in a circus, he has less trust issues than Natasha does.

Any movie we as people want to relate to I find has to try to make humans out of them or else people complain. It's why JK Rowling thinks HP worked because at the end of the day magic wasn't the answer- the good guys as themselves were. So naturally any focus in films is going to be on that- it's a relation thing.

So take that all into account, it's up for personalities and what you see when you put their not so normal selves into a context which you as a person relates to. So no one sees it the same way unless they're trying to copy whatever notes creators leave behind.

he's lived in a circus, he has less trust issues than Natasha does

i love that this is not established in the MCU but fans latched on to that almost immediately. also, the circus clint was in wasn't exactly all sunshine happiness and glitz! there was some deep fucked up shit like exploitation, betrayal of trust, loss of a brother, extortion, being made to do things you didn't want to, being moulded into a person you shouldn't be etc etc etc. so if anything clint has the same amounts of trust issues that natasha has, just in different ways.

Hm, yes. my comment sounded too simplistic I guess? But I think he's had somewhat better past that she did. I think different people tend to write Clint differently, which is the beauty of fanfiction. Ultimately he turns out less damaged than Natasha; in a way that he knows who he is. He has certain stability, and I think lot of us treat it as headcanon - he brings stability into her life once they start working together. It's hard to give something you never received (when it comes to these psychological things), and I suppose he did learn sometime, somewhere about basic trust, because he and Natasha operate on trust, and I think it's him who initiates it when they first get to know each other. He makes a different call, that's the fist step. I think he picked up everything good that showed up along his way (every kindness, every good lesson), and it was... a survival strategy. But my point was, he knows how to fit in among larger groups of people, find his place when he's working with them - I don't think it *doesn't* make him uncomfortable or alert regarding what people's intentions are. That's also a survival strategy.

(Besides circuses? I tend to look at them more like... large unhappy places full of problematic things, than happiness and glitz.)

Bruce is this brilliant man and a good person, and also a kind person, but after his accident he can't control himself. Or he can, but just barely. He thinks of himself as a monster, because that's how many people see him - this absolutely horrible and dangerous monster. he is aware how damage he can do, so he removes himself from human company and people he loves because he doesn't want to hurt them.

This really struck me. In the movie, Captain America says to Bruce Now would be a good time to get angry as the Leviathan approaches. Bruce says That's my secret Cap. I'm always angry. and Hulks out.

As I watched the movie again tonight, I paid particular attention to Bruce. In every scene, Mark Ruffalo played Bruce with an undercurrent of barely leashed, simmering anger. Most of the time, it was barely visible. To the average person, it would probably not be perceptible. Is it any wonder that Natasha was uncomfortable around him? Tony, on the other hand, was pretty much oblivious. And when he wasn't, he was blithely unconcerned. Not, I think, because he thought the Hulk couldn't crush him (sans Iron Man suit) into teeny tiny piece, but because Tony Stark underneath pretty much feels like if he dies, he dies.

I'm not sure how to explain that last statement. Tony Stark has always been reckless. Having faced his own death and come out the other side? I think has given him a very fatalistic viewpoint. That if he dies today then he dies today. He's not afraid of death, having faced it and come out the other side. maybe I am projecting. I was hit by a truck when I was 14 and flatlined in the ambulance. Spent 2 weeks in ICU and a month total in the hospital. I've looked at every day since as a gift. I don't want to die, but neither do I fear death.

but because Tony Stark underneath pretty much feels like if he dies, he dies.

I love your observation. It does sound very true for Tony, and I haven't though about him that way - Tony is reckless, but there's also something touching about the way he treats Bruce. Like he's not afraid, and he isn't because Tony takes a look and sees both the man and the monster. Only in Tony's eyes, it's not a monster he sees, but possibilities. He keeps trusting that Bruce/Hulk will come and join them in the final battle, when nobody else believes it, because he keeps both sides of the coin in mind. But this is a two way street, I think, because of Tony's treatment Bruce is able to be both - both the kind (even constantly angry) man, and the Hulk. (I love how Tony says, "You might just enjoy it.")

Tony has grown to be very accepting of who he is, warts and all. So how can be be any less accepting of anyone else. Only when they actually try to harm him or someone he holds dear then watch out. He will stop at nothing to avenge a loss or take care of someone he cares for. Tony Stark loves deeply. The flip side of that? He can hate just as deeply.

Witness Obadiah Stane. This man was a second father to him. Tony loved him but when he found out Stane turned against him, he was willing to kill him. I'm sure he felt sorrow and sadness but he didn't hesitate.

And I wouldn't want to be in Nick Fury's shoes when Tony Stark finds out he lied about Coulson dying. It isn't going to be pretty.

And I wouldn't want to be in Nick Fury's shoes when Tony Stark finds out he lied about Coulson dying. It isn't going to be pretty.

And I can't wait to see it *g*

I really really LOVE your thoughts on Tony, thank you for sharing!