21 December 2012 @ 02:16 pm
All Things Friday - Conflict & Conflict Resolution  
Clint and Natasha, Hawkeye & Black Widow – Why do they fight? What do they argue about? How often? How do they go about it? Do they yell? Throw things? Work it out on the sparring mat? Give each other the silent treatment? How do they argue differently when they’re being Clint and Natasha as opposed to Hawkeye and Black Widow? How do they resolve their issues? Does one person always have to give in or do they compromise? Which one of them has a temper (or do they both)? Can others tell when these two are fighting or are they private about? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!

The bottom line is that partners have conflicts. I’m using the word “conflict” as opposed to “argue” or “fight” because the question here is what shape those conflicts take – are they arguments and/or fights? Are they heated? Are they quick and then done?

Here’s another angle to consider – if in your personal headcanon these two are romantically involved, how do conflicts that come from one arena, i.e. Clint just won’t put the seat down, affect the other arena, i.e. now that they’re on a mission, does Black Widow even think about that stupid toilet seat? Or if Hawkeye takes out the last terrorist, the one that Black Widow already claimed, thank you very much, does Natasha take it out on Clint when they get home? Even if there is no romance and the two are platonic best friends, how do these things translate?

SO MANY FEELS!!! So give us your thoughts, your recs, your drabbles, your fics. Conflicts and conflict resolution. Have it out!
 
 
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[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on December 21st, 2012 07:58 pm (UTC)
Hmmmmm. I think this could go in any direction, meaning if there's a conflict between them I can imagine them both in a verbal and actual sparring match. I don't have a definite headcanon, other than I like to imagine them dealing with their issues, because they're both don't want an argument to screw up their partnership/friendship/relationship.

If we're talking about Clint and Natasha as part of team!Avengers, I imagine they both like to think nobody can notice they've been fighting/arguing about something. They're wrong, tho. it's not that they're bad at covering stuff up, but rather the fact that team, as a team, has a certain dynamic and when the balance is disturbed they all sense it, and sense something is wrong.

As for writing, I just thought about this the other day and realized I haven't written about them properly arguing about something, and decided I should do this some time soon. I did write about conflict and resolving of it, in the second part of Red Thread series (http://head-on-home.livejournal.com/16796.html). Mine is Clint's POV, and [livejournal.com profile] cybermathwitch wrote Natasha's POV of that same event here (http://awfully-clever.livejournal.com/44502.html). If you decide to read, heed the warnings and take a look at the meta info.

Edited 2012-12-21 07:59 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 21st, 2012 08:06 pm (UTC)
I definitely agree that the Avengers would know. When you have a tight-knit group, they follow each others ebb and flow, and when within that group you have a sub-unit, shall we say, that's as interwoven as Clint and Natasha - heck, YEAH, they'd know!

I'm also with you in that I hope they would resolve issues quickly, and for the reasons you listed. This isn't a pair that needs to go into battle with unresolved issues.

Very cool!
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on December 21st, 2012 08:12 pm (UTC)
I don't see them holding grudges either. They might do those "you and I remember Budapest differently" things, you know, ribbing each other about something, and snarking at each other, but there's no real malice in that. They both know anger is a serious thing and that they need to resolve it, because clinging to it is just unwise for two people like them.

Yes! A tightly knit group is like a body. Clint and Nat being angry at each other, that would feel like a sore limb. Boys would be concerned and would probably attempt to help them. Accent on attempt. ;) Actually, it would be interesting to see how two of them get used to this - others figure out something is wrong and poke and prod, and two of them getting used to this kind of thing from four other people who are concerned and mean well.
[identity profile] crazy4orcas.livejournal.com on December 21st, 2012 09:50 pm (UTC)
Just popping in really quick to leave a rec before I head home for a LONG WEEKEND!!!

You Have To Fight To Make Up by Eiluned

http://archiveofourown.org/works/373027
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 01:54 am (UTC)
Excellent rec!! :-)
Ashen Key: London town[personal profile] ashen_key on December 21st, 2012 10:15 pm (UTC)
The very last thing my Natasha and Clint do when they are in the middle of fighting is get physical - no sparing for them. Clint has too great a physical control over his temper and if the argument gets to just shouting, he leaves the room. Natasha doesn't want to kill anyone - she's had too much training from too younger an age to kill people to risk getting on a sparring mat and getting distracted. In IM2, we see what she can do while distracted (Happy was on the ground in about three seconds), so while she has the quicker temper, the most physical she usually gets while they are fighting is throwing something at a wall once one of them has left the room.

The longest running conflict they've had is post-Loki, when Natasha had moved into Clint's apartment to keep an eye on him. That wasn't the conflict. The conflict was two parts: Natasha wanted Clint to go to therapy because he badly needed help, and Clint turns into a jerk when he's hurting. She'd get frustrated; his abandonment issues would twist so he'd take shots (metaphorical) at her from frustration, because they were arguing, and/or from the combined place of 'if you stick around, you actually mean it; if you are going to go, get it over with'. In my headcanon, Coulson a) lives and b) is good friends with both Natasha and Clint, so Natasha ended up getting him to help.

They can hiss at each other over everything from Clint not leaving his shoes at the door to what Natasha spends on food (he grew up hovering in and under the poverty-line - how she spends money is a conflict that isn't going to go away) to Clint not going to therapy to Natasha being more sociopathic than normal and screwing people over whom Clint thinks can't handle it. They might talk it over, or just offer silent apologies (sex from Clint, food from Natasha is fairly standard, but they mix and match and make other overtures of peace), but they are both professionals enough (and honestly don't work together that much) that their domestic fights don't spill out into their working lives.

Professional disagreements or conflicts - actually, Natasha and Clint are better at handling them, because they are professional and both habitually work in teams, and they take too much pride in their work to fuck up their work (or endanger their co-workers) by not dealing with things.

Ficly, I've written:

Here's No Game: no arguing really talks place, but Natasha feels the undercover personas are blurring and messing things up, so she (eventually) brings up the subject with an 'in future, we aren't doing this'. Not arguing, but it was an issue and a potential conflict of interest of personal and professional lines blurring that they are dealing with before it becomes more of an issue (set pre-canon; daemon AU)

I've got troubles enough set very, very early on in Natasha's SHEILD career - the conflict (Clint punched someone, the rumour mill is saying because of Natasha, and Natasha is really not happy about this) is resolved through talking.

(not a) kiss with a fist is set post-canon when Clint is in the middle of his post-Loki unhappy place; the argument itself doesn't feature, but Natasha kisses him to try and get across what words didn't (and the fact that they don't normally get physical for various reasons is addressed)

An Apology (of a Kind) is set during the same time as the above ficlet. This is post-argument, when Clint's stormed one way and Natasha stormed the other, and while Clint doesn't verbally apologize, he makes an overture of peach which is accepted.

Domestic conflicts - if they go on for a while - are probably noticeable, but as I don't have the Avengers being a family in my headcanon (exception being Steve ending up as a little brother to Natasha), I haven't really thought about outsiders noticing beyond Coulson (and that was more...Natasha visiting him in hospital and crying at him, because long-term stress and worry and Coulson is safe, and Natasha is only human)
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on December 21st, 2012 11:06 pm (UTC)
Oh -- I look forward to reading those when I'm done with Friday night "movie night". Thanks! And yeah, I agree with you on the physical thing. They do too much fighting for real to be wanting to settle personal disputes that way -- too much chance for accidental (and highly prejudicial) injury.

That said, back in my fencing days my husband and I sometimes settled things "by the sword," but usually just bets, or who had to do the dishes -- never real disputes! :-)
Ashen Key[personal profile] ashen_key on December 21st, 2012 11:14 pm (UTC)
:-)! Hopefully you like! But yes, exactly - both of them are too trained, with too many instincts. Natasha is the better at hand-to-hand (being the brawler to Clint's long-distance), but neither of them are going to be physically fighting along with everything else, because yeah, as you said. Way too much room for injury, and they are professionals.

Ahahah, makes me miss my own fencing and re-enactment days. But I can see that kind of sparing! Disputes and jokes without any anger behind them settled on the sparring mat.
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 01:59 am (UTC)
I've read a few fics where the two of them resolved disputes either on the sparring mat or via physical altercation and they never sat well with me. I think all of this sums up why quite well. These two would be too careful to do that, wouldn't be interested in doing that, and are too adult to do that, frankly.

I also agree with your comments that it would be too reminiscent for Clint of his childhood and he wouldn't go near it with a ten-foot pole. Given the hideousness of Natasha's childhood, I can't see her liking it, either. Very well said. And truly, it helps express in words why I was never comfortable with that particular take on things. (Doesn't make a story bad - just means that part wasn't my favorite.)

Excellent discussion, all!
Ashen Key[personal profile] ashen_key on December 22nd, 2012 03:03 am (UTC)
My Clint didn't really have a physically abusive childhood (his parents were guilty of neglect) and my Natasha wasn't really hit, either (again: instincts - my RR controlled them by other means), but that angry loss of control resulting in violence never sits well with them.

(See also a theme with two of my fics)

Sparring matches where they 'don't hold anything back' never sit well with me, either - if either of them don't hold back, then they are trying to kill the other and risk either doing that, or causing a lasting injury. I won't back out of a fic that has them do it, but I'll eye it as jarring.
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on December 21st, 2012 10:54 pm (UTC)
Well, in my head canon, when they’re not on the job, they bicker. Over Clint refusing to eat any vegetable that isn’t an olive or a potato (Natasha thinks his approach to nutrition makes him more likely to die from high cholesterol than a bullet); over the amount of time Natasha takes with her make-up when she gets ready for a job (Clint thinks she’s just fine without mascara and lipstick, in fact, she looks much better). Sometimes they even do it on the job, like whether to take out the mark and his three body guards from up high with an arrow just to be on the safe side (Clint) or whether the situation is much better dealt with on the ground (Natasha). In that case, Coulson usually referees and/or pulls rank.

Things will, of course, get more complicated if/when they’re romantically engaged. Here’s a little scene I’m working on for “The Skies Over Manhattan” (slightly abridged, without proper italics and stuff. I hate .html!!). [Tried to put this under a "spoiler cut" -- please don't yell at me if it didn't work ...]

Natasha sighs heavily. She’s trying to do this right, she really is, but he’s not exactly helping. Clint Barton is not a social animal on his best days, a pain in the ass on his worst, and an acquired taste at any time. Right now, she is wondering whether she is doing the smart thing, trying to drag him kicking and screaming into a place where he obviously doesn’t want to be: Normal.

“It’s just drinks. Two hours, tops.”

“Just drinks? People like us don’t do just drinks, Tasha. When we go to a function, it’s for a purpose. To take out a mark, or walk off with some useful intel. Or both. We … I … don’t just stand around with a glass of wine and make small talk.”

Coming out of Clint’s mouth, the word small talk sounds like something slimy, with retractable fangs and a frilly dress. He gives her a baleful blue-green stare, fuelled by twenty-four-karats worth of Barton pigheadedness.

Natasha holds his eyes with hers. Is this what domestic quarrels are about? Normal couples have them; she’s read about them those books, and some magazines. But this can’t possibly be it. Uh-uh. She and Clint aren’t … they don’t do … normal.

The irony that this is exactly what she’s been trying to achieve hits her in the face with the power of Mjolnir.

...

“Fine. I’ll go alone. You stay here and feel sorry for yourself, and fletch some more arrows. I’ll tell Pepper my date developed a sudden case of shingles and hope Steve didn’t bring someone. Maybe we can get our picture on Twitter and start some rumours.”

Clint broods for a minute, looking for an out, wondering just how badly he should be looking for one given that she really seems to want this, for whatever reason. They’re supposed to be doing this couple thing now, right? Talk about being compromised.

Natasha hasn’t moved; she is still staring at him, scanning his face for signs that he might crack. She can hold that kind of posture for hours, just like he can his bow.

Dammit.

Sometimes, Clint has learned, the only way to make a graceful exit is to punch something in the face and step over its body. He grits his teeth. Arrows. She mentioned arrows.

“Guess I could talk to Stark about some arrow designs I’ve been thinking about.”

Natasha gives him a small but genuine smile, the kind that very few people get to see. Somehow, she manages to keep any hint of triumph out of it. Take the victory, don’t stick around to gloat, go on to the next target.

And then, because she’s read on one of those magazines that flexibility deserves a reward and that positive reinforcement is a good thing, she goes up to him and gives him a long, deep kiss -- before moving in for the kill.

“Oh, I lied about the jeans, Barton. Wear black pants and the black Armani jacket I got you, you know, for that trafficking job in Hamburg? White or black t-shirt – I don’t care. You can pick.”

Clint just rolls his eyes.

“Who or what the hell is Armani?”






Edited 2012-12-21 11:55 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 02:00 am (UTC)
LOVE THIS!!!!!
[identity profile] purely-distel.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 08:47 am (UTC)
Yes, yes, yes YES! This is brilliant! *grins widely* And I can absolutely see this being a possible scenario :D

Cannot wait for the rest ;) *is a happy camper*
[identity profile] sugar-fey.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 01:27 am (UTC)
TW: domestic violence
In my headcanon, Clint is very, very careful not to let fights get physical, because it reminds him too much of his abusive father and even though he knows Natasha can defend herself, turning into his father is one of his worst fears, and sparring while angry walks a dangerous line in his mind. Natasha knows that Clint will never become like that, but she respects his policy of never sparring when they feel angry. She has her triggers too.

I think they both have a natural tendency to bottle things up, to shove issues down and try to ignore them rather than dealing with them outright, but they do try to make an effort to talk about things, especially once they're romantically involved. They recognise that relationships, like good partnerships, require communication in order to work. First they put in the effort to make their partnership work (because there was a lot riding on it at the beginning for both of them), then they do the same for their relationship. It's something they consciously do, because it doesn't come to them naturally.

They bicker about the small stuff and have shouting matches (in private, soundproof locations where they can't be overheard), but it's when they don't talk to each other that something is really wrong.
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 02:01 am (UTC)
Re: TW: domestic violence
THIS. All of it. !!
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 02:13 am (UTC)
Re: TW: domestic violence
I'm with Jacedesbff. Cannot disagree with a single word! :-)
[identity profile] sherarara.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 02:26 am (UTC)
Well, since it's topical for once, I guess I can leave the snippet I've written as prep work for a cottoncandy-bingo fill I'm working on. The prompt is "fight", which amused me to no end when I saw this week's topic :-)

This isn't intended to be actual fic, per se, so much as it's just word vomit designed to get me writing.

***

They don’t fight, not with each other. They don’t spar, they don’t hit or kick or throw punches because that would be too real, too close, too personal. They’ve fought only once, back at the beginning, and even then it was aborted, just weapons drawn on each other, a stalemate until suddenly it wasn’t anymore.

They don’t fight because they don’t want to know who’s better. Even after Loki and all the shit that went down on the Helicarrier, they aren’t sure who’s better, and that’s just the way they like it. Because he was fighting Loki while he was fighting her, and she was trying not to kill him without pulling her punches.

They fight together, and it’s beautiful, a violent dance, pure motion and emotion all rolled up in one choreographed miasma.

Mostly, they’re really freaking awesome and they don’t hit each other because that shit is just too weird and I kind of hate that trope, now that I think about it.

Edited 2012-12-22 02:33 am (UTC)
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 03:38 am (UTC)
Bwhahahahaha. This is beautiful.
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 05:24 am (UTC)
Insanely perfect snippet!! :D Love it!
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 03:51 am (UTC)
I'm actually writing this at the moment, so I was thinking about this. At the moment my headcanon is that Clint is the calmer one, but when he is angry it is much deeper. Natasha is more likely to get angry, and also more likely to see it resolved sooner because she wants the conflict decided one way or the other. I think both of them would tend to repress a lot of their issues with each other, then let it out in unproductive ways (passive-aggressive sniping and such), especially early on in their relationship. But they eventually end up talking it out, because they're each other's person and that's too important to mess up.

As for settling arguments physically, I don't think either of them would fight it out. I also have the headcanon that Clint never wants to become like his abusive father figures. I also read them as literally never wanting to hurt the other (in the Helicarrier fight, there was a reluctance there from both of them to hit the other).
Ashen Key[personal profile] ashen_key on December 22nd, 2012 05:04 am (UTC)
(in the Helicarrier fight, there was a reluctance there from both of them to hit the other

Hmm, do you think so? I read it as he was doing his best to kill her, and she was trying to take him down/defend herself while not killing him. I find it interesting that so many people can watch the same scene, and draw completely different conclusions from it. It's fun :-)

But yeah, I'm with you on seeing Clint as the calmer one (if nothing else, the man is a professional sniper: that is a career that calls for someone to be very good at keeping his cool) with Natasha with the quicker temper.
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 05:31 am (UTC)
I find it interesting that so many people can watch the same scene, and draw completely different conclusions from it. It's fun :-) IKR?! Case(s) in point: the color of Clint/Jeremy's eyes; Clint's nickname(s) for Natasha. Love it!! :D
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 02:02 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I could go either way with Clint on the Helicarrier fight, now that you mention it. And Natasha was trying to take him down, but both were doing what was necessary. Just because they don't want to hurt want other doesn't mean they don't.
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 05:46 pm (UTC)
Agree -- they're professionals first, both by training and psychological make up. What they do (and that includes killing people when necessary) defines who they are. So yes, I think she would have killed him if he hadn't spoken her name, as only Clint would. The hesitation we saw before she wound up for that final blow was not about whether to hit him, but how hard, and the fact that she hesitated at all was solely due to the reprieve he had once given her. She made the call, just as he had then.
Ashen Key[personal profile] ashen_key on December 22nd, 2012 06:53 pm (UTC)
I both agree and disagree with this - I think she went in trying not to kill him, to spare him (like you said, to give him the reprieve he'd once given her; I see it as her debt to him is now squared in her head) if she could, but once he was on his knees, she didn't have to kill him at all. I think she was just seeing how he was reacting.

But yes, they are both professionals, first and foremost.
Ashen Key[personal profile] ashen_key on December 22nd, 2012 06:50 pm (UTC)
I saw his pause as....calculation? The man's had no sleep, and Natasha is a very, very hard opponent who is pretty much as the best at hand to hand; and as I saw it, Loki had taken all of Clint's loyalty for everything and everyone - he had nothing left for Natasha. But, yeah, absolutely they were both just doing what was necessary - I think if Natasha hadn't attacked him, he wouldn't have gone out of his way to take her down (see the way he shot Fury: shot to the centre of body mass to just take him down. Given how fast he had to shoot, with no time to line up the shot, that's the most logical place to shoot him, and either way, it takes Fury down. Clint's very, very practical).
[identity profile] chrisfaithalin.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 06:54 am (UTC)
I agree with everybody completely that they would never settle their arguments by physically fighting. There are too many triggers there for that to be a solution.

I have a slightly different head canon when it comes to arguments. For some reason in my head, I don't see them having them really. Initially, yes, they probably butted heads all of the time. But as, their partnership grew and they started a personal relationship I don't see them really fighting. To me, both of them, but especially Clint, have seen how conflict has torn apart even the strongest bonds. They also work in a trade that has them witnessing and being a part of conflict a lot. In their private life I see them not wanting to waste the time on fighting. They are both independent people who just kind of let the other be. So Clint doesn't tidy up after himself, Natasha just steps around the mess. So Natasha likes the apartment cold, Clint just wears extra layers. I think there would be little bickering about small things, when it is easier to just let the other be and not let small things get under your skin.

As for if there were very big differences in opinions on something important, I think they calmly talk it out. If they get to the point where neither side is willing to bend, they just kind of disengage. They take time to cool off, maybe vent to somebody else (usually Coulson) and reapproach the issue. They are both stubborn people and know it. But in the end, I can't imagine anything that would be a huge argument to them.

As I'm writing this and thinking about this, I know it sounds kind of idyllic, but I just think there is so much darkness in their jobs and past, that when they are home and with each other they just want to not spend the time fighting. They also respect each other enough and are independent enough to not try to change each other. I guess that's my two cents on the topic.
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[identity profile] purely-distel.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 09:07 am (UTC)
There are a lot of comments already here that I agree with.
The fact that Clint had a childhood filled with abuse and therefore won't let an argument turn physical is something I can only underline double time. If there is one thing that makes him such a good archer, it's the control he has over his body in any given situation and what made him stick with that control, perfect it, was him never ever wanting to turn into his dad ... or foster dad 2, 3 and 5 (you know what I mean). The same thing is true for Natasha. She comes from a different kind of dark childhood in my head, but dark it was nonetheless. They know what they can do with their bodies after all.

I can see Clint as someone, that needs to chew on things for a while, again because of the control thing. He won't just shout things, he'll have thought about them first. So I see him taking a break once it gets too intense. Going outside for a while, to think things through.

Tasha on the other hand ... well, firstly, she is used to control just as Clint is, but different. She is used to controlling her body, sure but mainly she controls people, manipulates them. And one thing I can see her struggling with is sometimes not knowing what is full on manipulation of someone she cares about, and what is still normal, garden variety relationship psychology she is "allowed" to use ... you know what I mean? I don't mean she isn't full aware when she puts her womanly wiles on someone (or her Widow-y wiles ^^), no. But especially once they are involved romantically, try that "couple thing" for real, that it gets a bit confusing for her. Because she is in more fake relationships than real ones ... I can see that being an issue.

And that, coupled with Clints need for patience (because between the two, she isn't the patient one) sometimes drives her up the wall and turns a silly little nearly-argument like "you don't eat properly" (Tasha) or "that shampoo costs more than the contents of my wardrobe" (Clint) into something more.

I can see Clint as being the one that has a few things he is set on and those, he won't let go or won't compromise about. But with other things, he might be the one to search for a compromise quicker, or give in rather than get into it head-to-head with Tasha.

Tasha on the other hand, probably takes longer to get there (she is one stubborn lady, things are meant to go her way or the highway) but in the end can find a solution for pretty much anything, if talked about properly.

Now, work conflicts. I could actually see the two being so set on being "stable" at work, that sometimes they take something that happened in the office (ok, let's be honest, a mission) and turn it into a private relationship-argument, take it home with them so to speak, than make it about something that is just work related. Do you know what I mean? Of course, it depends on what it is, but the thing is ... they are both passionate people, so if something shitty happened during a mission, they will both talk it through calmly and logically with Coulson once back, make a decision how to handle situation B next time, and move on.

But the emotions that were there during the mission, they are still around. And that is what they then take home and put into ... well, frankly, either a hot, rough quicky where it's more about taking than about giving, or they argue. But I can see both of them being able to recognise what that particular argument is about.

OK, I'll wrap this up now ... I could go on for ages, I think ... but it's nearly ten am, I need to get a move on life for the day, so to speak ;)

Edited 2012-12-22 09:12 am (UTC)
Ashen Key[personal profile] ashen_key on December 22nd, 2012 09:32 am (UTC)
And one thing I can see her struggling with is sometimes not knowing what is full on manipulation of someone she cares about, and what is still normal, garden variety relationship psychology she is "allowed" to use ... you know what I mean? I don't mean she isn't full aware when she puts her womanly wiles on someone (or her Widow-y wiles ^^), no. But especially once they are involved romantically, try that "couple thing" for real, that it gets a bit confusing for her.

My Natasha struggles with this, too (and it's not helped by Clint's carnie background, either); she ends up not trying to manipulate at all - which can lead to its own issues.

And your point about professional bleeding over into personal is something I find really interesting - I'm going to have to mull over that. It does make sense, though.
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on December 22nd, 2012 05:58 pm (UTC)
Separating the professional from the personal is not easy at the best of times, and when you're paid to suss out intel and manipulate people, it can become a skin that's difficult to shed.

In Clint's case, I'm intriguing to see how he would react when Natasha has to put on the seduction routine AFTER they become a couple. There are some fics around that deal with this, but usually in a pretty superficial fashion (mostly PWPs, leading to hot and steamy sex ...). I'm planning on dealing with it in a somewhat more adult fashion at some point, but it sure is an interesting issue that warrants many different perspectives.
Ashen Key[personal profile] ashen_key on December 22nd, 2012 06:41 pm (UTC)
I have (with my partner-in-crime) headcanon for how he reacts post-couple! Which is basically...how he reacted pre-couple, because he doesn't get possessive-jealous over it. Mostly, given how off-balance Natasha gets (due to the highly dubious-at-best nature of sex-on-a-mission), he is far more concerned about taking care of her.

So, if you were curious at all on our take:

Just Be Quiet With Me by [livejournal.com profile] dictator_duck and keeping your head above water by me are both immediate aftermath (and, as mentioned above, both deal with it as dubiously consensual at best).

nothing but a fear is something I wrote dealing with the question of Clint being jealous.

I actually have no issue with PWPs set post-mission; if Natashsa wants to have very consensual sex to reclaim herself and her body, more than happy to read it and it's a pretty valid way of dealing with all of the consent issues. It's when Clint gets all...angry-jealous-you're-mine that I click away, given how I view those missions (and also how I view Clint's attitude to sex). But, yes! It is a very interesting issue with a bunch of different perspectives.

Edited 2012-12-22 06:42 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] nessataleweaver.livejournal.com on December 23rd, 2012 04:36 am (UTC)
Hmmm... I see 'conflict' falling into three categories: fighting, arguing, & squabbling.

Fighting is physical, & I'm with pretty much everyone else here on this: they never do it when they're angry at each other. They do fight on a regular basis, but that's sparring, & it's more a bonding exercise than anything else. It can occasionally look vicious to outsiders (I can just see someone calling up Coulson early on, saying 'come to the gym, Hawkeye & Black Widow are trying to kill each other'), but for those in the know, it often draws an admiring crowd for the show. They might occasionally do it when one of them has the irrits or angry with someone else, & needs to blow off steam or work off a bad mood, but again, for them this is the equivalent of one person holding the punching bag while the other beats it up. They don't hold back from each other in physical conflict (other than the obvious 'it's a bad idea to cause damage to your partner when you might get called into action at any time') because they know exactly how the other fights, & how far they need to be pushed at that moment; in some ways, it's an ongoing show of respect; 'I know I'm awesome at what I do & I'm perfectly aware that you're awesome enough to keep up with me'.

Arguing is strictly verbal, & it's done coldly & calmly. They mostly do it quietly & by strict codes of war, because again, they are acutely aware of how much damage they can do to each other. Arguing happens over serious issues, & unless there's an unexpected call to action, they don't stop until either one of them needs a breather to get their thoughts in order (and for that, they don't go further than the balcony or next room) or the issue is resolved. Partly because they know how precarious their lives can be & unresolved issues & regrets aren't things that should linger with people who are important to them, partly because lingering issues that could lead to work problems are something they can't afford in the field, because their lives often depend on each other.
Something comes up in the field (which became very rare after the first year or so) it's always 'We're busy, so just do this & this because it's necessary, & we'll discuss this when we get back'. First & foremost, Clint & Nat are professionals
I don't see arguing as happening very often, because let's face it, when your life is this intricately involved with someone (I'm talking about straight partnership, no romantic involvement at all) if you don't genuninely get along you don't last very long as a pair, & you certainly don't pull off the kinds of stuff that it's obvious Clint & Natasha have unless you're in sync - which again, doesn't happen if you don't agree on things most of the time anyway.

Squabbling, on the other hand, is not only verbal, but heated. It's for the day-to-day shit, stuff which they each step around most of the time anyway - or just because they're bored! It's more banter than anything else, mostly, but banter between two very dangerous (but never to each other) people.
Sarcasm & inventive insults (especially in other languages) is not only encouraged, it's expected, & they'll sometimes give compliments or even rewards afterward for the best line.
It sometimes happens on missions (especially over comms!), but it's basically the equivalent of two cops giving each other shit over coffee on a stakeout, & only when they're in a solid place personally. When they were all still in the field, Coulson would occasionally interject a comment or two over the comms as well.
When they squabble at home, they tend to squabble to a standstill ("Fine, then!" "Fine!") & work off the pent-up energy with jungle sex. Or they'll occasionally play-fight (rough & tumble wrestling, but no hitting!) until it turns into 'aha! victory is mine! Now you have to give up the remote/clean all my equipment/be my love slave for the rest of the night!'.
(Clint has been known to say things like 'I have you now, my pretty!' Natasha will use phrases like 'Get naked, American scum, and bring me chocolate icecream. I'll decide whether you're worthy to be used as my sexual plaything after you rub my feet.')
(oh, crap, is that a plotbunny I hear hopping towards me?)

Edited 2012-12-23 04:58 am (UTC)
[identity profile] jacedesbff.livejournal.com on December 23rd, 2012 05:25 am (UTC)
Excellent categorizations. Very nice!

And happy plot bunnies are happy! And they spawn MORE plot bunnies (b/c rabbits are like that.) :D