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franztastisch
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03 May 2013 @ 07:53 pm
ATTF: Clint, Natasha and AUs  
Hello! I am this week’s ATTF host (again)! And today’s topic is the much loved Alternate Universe, or AU.

BUT more specifically than just AUs, this is about Clint and Natasha, and how you make Clint and Natasha Clint and Natasha when you’ve taken away a great deal of what makes the canonically Clint and Natasha.

SO what do you see as being fundamentally Clint and Natasha? The part of their personality and/or character that identifies them as themselves, whether they are circus performers or ex-cons or teachers or regular high school students or whatever.

For Clint I think it is (among other things) being loyal, stubborn and slightly self-sabotaging. For Natasha I think it is (again, among other things) being a fighter, in control of her emotions and quite wary. But that's just what I think, and I don't write very often so what do I know? :P

So, discuss! Rec! Argue! (Politely!) Have fun!

Things to remember:
1) Always label NSFW (Not Safe For Work) stuff in the title and post under a cut.
2) Fic and artwork needs to have a rating and warnings (or you can say that you’ve chosen not to use warnings).
3) For people with annoying internet connections, say in the title if a comment is graphic/images/gif-heavy and post picspams under a cut.
4) Have a damn good time! (Because if that’s not happening then this post has clearly failed.)

My absolute favourite Clint/Natasha AU: Two for the Show (and its sequel Upon this Winter's Night) by mousie tongue [ff.net]
[ Clint&Natasha | R | 31,000 words | high school AU | warnings: physical and verbal bullying, sexualized assault, violence, homophobia and homophobic language, swearing, child abuse, implied non-con ]
After her uncle is taken, young Natasha Romanov ends up in state's custody at a group home. She can tough it out alone... but somehow fellow resident Clint Barton becomes the reason she doesn't have to.
About the most in character AU I have read for this pairing. If you haven’t read this why? (And please, be aware of the warnings, but also that the issues are well handled and not the main focus of the story. Ratings and warnings for Two for the Show.)

My second favourite Clint/Natasha AU: No Light in this Valley by [livejournal.com profile] trysts
[ Clint/Natasha | PG-13 | 7600 words | wild west (?) AU | warnings: violence and swearing ]
30 miles to water, 20 miles to wood, 10 miles to hell and I gone there for good
Again, fantastic characterisation, and also just a really interesting setting. Clint especially is brilliant.

And two other favourites: Soiree by [livejournal.com profile] ruby_caspar
[ Clint/Natasha | PG-13 | 8600 words | Georgette Heyer Regency AU | warnings: none ]
The Dowager Duchess known as the Black Widow is the talk of the ton - rich and mysterious, the only way to meet this elusive lady is through the equally mysterious Mr Barton…
OH MY GIDDY AUNT I love this. In a way, this is still a spy story just set in Regency England, but it’s so so fantastic I’m reccing it here anyway. :P

Set The Fire To The Third Bar by [livejournal.com profile] themonkeytwin
[ Clint/Natasha | PG | 4500 words | warnings: none ]
It was a strange thing, to know you were living a life that wasn't quite your own.
Clint never runs away to the join the circus and becomes a firefighter with a feeling that he’s missing something. As a concept, it's stunning. And again, I feel it is very in character. LOVE.
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[identity profile] chrisfaithalin.livejournal.com on May 3rd, 2013 11:25 pm (UTC)
I second this. I don't hate AUs and I'll occasionally read them, especially if it's an author I really like. But, I don't go out of my way to find them. To me what makes up a character are the experiences that made them that way and if you take that away usually they are somebody else. For instance why I like Natasha is the fact that she was forced into the Red Room program and how her life is reflective of that experience. If there is no Red Room then it's not Natasha anymore. I know that people like exploring what characters would do in different situations and time periods, but at that point I think you are delving into original fiction more, which is great, but it's not always what I'm looking for when I read fanfiction. This pretty much goes for all fandoms. I especially never understood Harry Potter stories without the magic. What's the point?
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on May 3rd, 2013 11:31 pm (UTC)
But Natasha as a character existed before the Red Room. I don't think she's The Black Widow without being used or manipulated by bad people (as redbrunja kinda said below), and then rising above that. But does it have to be the Red Room?
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 12:45 am (UTC)
Yeah -- Harry Potter without the magic ... I am SO with you.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 09:03 am (UTC)
The point is in characters and what you can do with them. I've written one of thpse and it's one of my favorite works i've written. I think it's also very in-characzer.
[identity profile] frea-o.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 01:29 am (UTC)
What's the point?

Characters, generally. I write primarily AU (and would argue that anybody who writes Avengers fic basically writes AU anyway, but that's a different talk for a different day) and the reason a lot of authors choose to write things like Harry Potter without magic or all-human Twilight and things like that is because we see these characters that we like and we wonder what would change and what would remain the same. They're the greatest in "What if?" stories, and a test to see if the author can replicate the conditions that formed that character in a different, new environment (sometimes; other times authors just ignore all of those and slap names on characters that don't seem like canon characters at all). Obviously, things are going to be different, but that's going to happen even in a canon-compliant fic.

Obviously, AUs aren't for everybody (the comments here are definitely proving that), but as long as even just the artist/writer enjoys creating the story, there's your point. :)
[identity profile] otherbella.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 02:22 am (UTC)
I totally agree with this comment.

It's interesting seeing the dividing lines, I'd never thought about fic in a strictly non-AU sense.

(and would argue that anybody who writes Avengers fic basically writes AU anyway, but that's a different talk for a different day)
and to take it further, anyone who writes fanfic at all could be considered writing an AU of some sort. But that's the beauty of fanfic for me, too. As a writer and a reader, getting to see the characters I adore in all the different scenarios that would never play out in a comic book or on a tv/movie screen is what makes fanfiction an enjoyable hobby for me.

Basically nodding my head at everything you've written here.

http://lar_laughs.livejournal.com/: Marvel - Natasha red hair[identity profile] lar_laughs.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 05:29 am (UTC)
but as long as even just the artist/writer enjoys creating the story, there's your point.

EXACTLY! You should always love what you do. If you don't, it becomes work.
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 06:00 am (UTC)
but as long as even just the artist/writer enjoys creating the story, there's your point. :) Yes!

AUs are mind-gym and endless space for creativity and imagination and just wonderful. You get to play with things you'll never see in canon (all Avengers family stories please!!).

And yes, you can find OOC writing in both AU and canon-compliant settings.

Also, your AUs are amazing. :D
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 10:05 am (UTC)
but as long as even just the artist/writer enjoys creating the story, there's your point.

Oh, absolutely. As someone else (Anuna?) said, ultimately it is about the characters,and expanding on the world in which we have seen them. It's just for me personally, I like playing with them as they are presented.

Not everyone likes my own reality (and I mean today's political reality) infused stories either, and I'm okay with that. My current story has C/N infiltrating a cult, and it's got the lowest response of any of my Avengers pieces to date. Am enjoying writing it? Hell, yeah.

A question of preference, is all, and personal taste, and there's room for all. Oh, and Frea -- I'll read anything you write (provided it contains characters I know something about ...). :-)
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 09:01 am (UTC)
I have Harry Potter AU where there's no magic. And i challenge you not to like it! *g* (i should finish it too, i think).
[identity profile] anuna-81.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 11:08 am (UTC)
I think one of the challenges (with Nat) is - how do I replicate what Red Room did to her? Because, the bottom line is the experience of emotional abuse and fighting to stay alive - IF you decide your Natasha was put through some sort of abuse or traumatic experience. (You can write her without that as well - what if she grew up with Steve in Brooklyin? I mean, back in 1930s. That would suffice to create the personality she has.). Her life within RR was never certain, it was always under condition, and emotionally, abuse can result in similar personality and behavior. For instance, abusive emotional relationship, getting out of it and reclaiming her life? pretty much a good parallel. Emotionally, mentally, very similar things happen to her, and she has to actively learn how to be herself again after she gets out. She is still Natasha with all adapting canon-compliant Natasha had to do, minus the violence if you decide she'd be a non-violent character. (She can still be scary competent, badass, in control of her feelings and actions, manipulative, practical, everything she is, minus weapons. I'd hate to think that aggression and violence are the most important aspects of what-makes-Natasha- Natasha. IMO she's much more complex than that.)

Edited 2013-05-04 11:21 am (UTC)
[identity profile] chrisfaithalin.livejournal.com on May 4th, 2013 11:00 pm (UTC)
I definitely agree with you that AUs can replicate conditions and experiences to make the character work. When I do read AU, those are the ones I read. I don't think that Natasha is only the sum total of her experiences, but I do think they informs certain traits and characteristics, such as trust issues. Those things can be mimicked through different backgrounds. I get that.

And I guess the whole Harry Potter thing is slight hyperbole, those are distinct characters beyond the magic.

But, where I do have a problem with AU is if they don't resemble the original characters. A specific example of this was a story I read, more out of morbid curiosity, for the Glee fandom. The author wrote a holocaust story with the two Jewish characters on the show. The characters had no similarities to the characters on the show, it was like the only important trait to this author was that they were Jewish. On top of that I thought the author's story was insensitive and historically inaccurate, but that's besides the point. When the characters are too far removed from the original circumstances, to me it becomes original fiction.

I will say this, I have read the most amount of AU stories for this fandom because most authors in this fandom keep the characters relatively true to the originals. I used to not read almost any AU and now I read it on occasion. I see the way AU challenges an author and allows for more creativity. Personally, though, the further the story is from the original, the less interested I become. There is a lot of fanfiction out in the world, so you have to limit yourself somehow. I'm not closed off to it though.