No, I haven't seen any daemon Avengers AUs yet either! (And the Sherlock ones I read were so good as to be intimidating lol.) I loved the daemons and the changes they make to how people view each other and interact. Sod The Golden Compass films though, the books are far superior ;P

SNIPPET! Oh, you tease *grins*.

(Also, here I am chatting away with you in different threads and I had the moment of 'hang on, have I actually friended this person? No? No? This must be corrected!' And so I have friended you. Hi!)

I keep disagreeing with people's daemon-selection *facepalms*

I loved the daemons and the changes they make to how people view each other and interact

Yesssssssssss, me too. Although, ugh, I wish people who do the crossovers would stop their "but servants are dogs and thus dogs are mindless because servants are mindless" thing, because, ugh, ugh, ugh. (and Steve is such a dog-person. As is Pepper - she is so utterly a border collie, sharp as a tack and scary intelligent and a very good organizer and loyal as anything). Anyway. And yessss, I like the movie for the visuals and for Nicole Kidman being the best Mrs Coulter, but other than that, give me the books any day.

*flutters eyelashes* I try, I try.

(ahah, hi! My journal is rather a boring mix of fandom and RL crap, but *friends back*)

I don't think I know enough about animal types to say really, but I love hearing people's explainations for why they chose what they do. There haven't been any that I've hugely disagreed with, but then I haven't read many *shrugs*.

I read one...two?...where John has a dog daeman, although in one it's a cross between a wolf and a dog. And one were Lestrade has a dog daeman. I don't get where people being stupidly subserviant with dog daeman's comes from, maybe because of the people who work at Bolanger (sp?) with dog daemans, but they've been cut... I can see Steve with a dog daeman, definitely. Something friendly and...maybe a golden retriever or lab? Thor...I wonder if they'd have daemons on Asgard and if not, would Thor get one when he comes to Midguard, like Will does? Although Will doesn't get one by going into Lyra's world.... *thinky thoughts*

You succeed *grins*.

I tend to use a mixture of looking up the animal's actual personality + fan-meta on what various animals might mean + symbolism (mostly the former two). So, Natasha is a cat in my books - they are clever, aloof but can be charming (but oh, no, they don't love you, oh no, you are just there for scritches, see, no actual affection <.<) and can be slinky, fluffy and adorable, and dangerous appearing depending on mood and the situation. She's a Siberian in particular because a) Russian, b) they are big, solid cats and very athletic, c) very smart and talkative, and d) fluffy as anything so they appear harmless and adorable (omg, so adorable - but the picture I found for visual reference re: Ilariy is of this gorgeous fluffy cat stalking something in the snow, and the look in the eyes is just pure hunter focus).

The servants tend to have dogs comes from the books, but I think culture has a lot to do with how people settle, just as much as actual personality (and also, Lyra is a snobby, sheltered eleven-year-old for a narrator). I've been looking up the history of servants for various other reasons a few weeks ago, and the sheer numbers of servants is amazingly large - and a lot of them get in before they would have settled. So, I think there is a culture there, too, and biases in hiring practices.

Steve I have as a pit-bull - they didn't have their current (sadly much maligned, poor puppies) reputation when he settled in the thirties, and they are loyal and stubborn. And the picture someone linked me, the dog had such a sincere, Steve-look in the eyes, I couldn't resist. Thor does have a daemon! Asgardians don't have them, as they are alien-god-people, but when he was cast out he became human. He's got a lioness - big, gold, really undignified in family/relaxed settings, part of a group, but when called for really, really dangerous and ultimately a predator(/warrior). And to make things awkward, Eylidr sticks around once he's back to normal, For Reasons (mostly I thought it'd be an interesting spanner in the works, and could help explain his new attitude in a lot of ways).

- oh, yes, hmm. Although, Will's dad got a daemon when he appeared in Lyra's world, so IDK what's up with that. I may need to reread the books again.

I love your explaination for Natasha's daemon. Hope you post links to the inspirational pictures when you post the fic!

Yes, Lyra as an eleven-year-old narrator counts for a lot. I have a similiar argument about the lense of vewing the Harry Potter books through Harry's eyes all the time. Hmm, is it mentioned somewhere in the books that servants with dogs are preferred servants? I seem to recall reading it somewhere, but it may have been fic. Heh, that moment when fic and canon are insperable in your head ;)

when he was cast out he became human. Of course, so yes, he would have a daemon. Logical! I would believe that he keeps his daemon afterwards, because so does Will (although other people can't see Will's daemon I believe when he's in a world where people don't have daemons). I think that would be very interesting, not least because now Thor would be visably different, perhaps drawing comparisons with the fact that Loki is different, but Loki can hide being blue and Thor can't hide a huge lioness? And what would his people think, having a king to be with this vulnerability walking along beside him? Having a future king so different? A reason for Thor to bond with the Avengers, themselves different, perhaps and perhaps a reason to stay on Midguard? Thinky, thinky...

:D! And ahaha, I might just! There are enough of them, and some of them probably need visual reference (like Tony's bowerbird of a daemon).

In the first book, Lyra makes the comment that servants tend to have dogs - I'm extrapolating from that for hiring bias, at least at her university.

And yesss, exactly! I'm poking at the ramifications and things, but it's way too much fun to keep Eylidr around - I think, actually, Thor may end up pitying the Asgardians. They do not have a constant companion, they do not have someone beside them who is both them and independent. After the initial ?!, Thor values and loves Eylidr, and refuses to hide her. Asgard can make of that as it well, which I think will lead somewhere very, very interesting with Thor, who is so much an unthinkingly loyal son of Asgard. But there he is on Midgard, with a daemon like the mortals, and yesss. It'll be very interesting - mostly beyond the scope of the fic I'm writing, but I may have to swoop back and poke at it.

Daemon photoset! :D :D

That's probably where I got it from, but as you said, that's in her opinion and limited (especially at that point) world view.

I'm not a huge Thor fan. I mean, I like the character, he's friendly and great for others to play off in fics, but not one that I've thought or a lot or cared to think much about. The others just seem more fascinating to me. But the more the idea of Thor with a daemon gets poked at the more something in my head goes that's so damn interesting *grins*. I suppose it's the whole cultural implications - people who pick up other cultures, adopt parts from them as it were, can be viewed with suspicion or discomfort or 'yes, alright, shut up about it now' on their return and that's without such a physical representation of adopting that culture, and a mortal culture at that....

I am very fond of Thor! He's not stupid, just very straight-forward, and I feel that fandom doesn't do enough with him, which...partly contributes to my ignoring him, I admit. (Although if fandom did more things like The Stories That Stay With You, I'd be very happy - there does need to be more team + Thor fic, particularly of the kind where you can see him interacting with Midgardian culture and having it reflect back at him, and make him think about things differently.

I suppose it's the whole cultural implications - people who pick up other cultures, adopt parts from them as it were, can be viewed with suspicion or discomfort or 'yes, alright, shut up about it now' on their return and that's without such a physical representation of adopting that culture, and a mortal culture at that....

Ohhhhhhhhhh, I totally didn't follow my thoughts through enough, because I'm staring at this and going *_________* yessssssssss a lot. I didn't think about that aspect at all, but you're absolutely right. And Thor is such a believer, and this'd both be something that he can't not think about re: his attitude and beliefs, and also the 'new convert' aspect, too.

You are going to be terrible re: thinking up ideas and angles for fics, I can tell <3

Edited 2012-07-02 01:54 pm (UTC)

I'm fond of him, I just find myself more interested in the others. I'm all 'Clint and Natasha are the two humans on the team and they're wow' and then 'and Tony, there are so many good Tony fics' and 'hey, Steve, poor guy, transplanted into the future' and 'Bruce being science bros with Tony, so fun!' but then 'what about Betty? Hey, and whilst we're talking about the ladies, what about Peggy and Maria and Jane and Darcy and...' and then it's 'whoops, hi Thor.' Poor Thor. I did read a post on why Thor is not an idiot that has gone some way to making me more interested, but I still seem to like him as, well, a foil for the other characters rather than being interested in him on his own merits. I might get over it *grins*.

*thinky thinky* Thor is at it's most basic an exchange student who's had a life changing trip, but then he's a god who's been a mortal and has this evidence of an aspect of mortality that must then be within all Asgardians... What you said about 'new convert' and this may because the 'Red Room as a cult' is still playing in my mind, but as we thinking here that the Asgardians see Thor as converted to another religion almost when he's a god of their religion? No offence to religion, but like Jesus deciding to be a Buddhist monk? Only worse because instead of a loud, orange robe he has a walking, talking, impossible to ignore LIONESS prowling alongside him... Okay, brain may have gone off the rails here...

Mwahahaha! Ahem.

BETTY. There needs to be more Betty in this fandom, I swear. She'd be so good for Bruce, for...various reasons which I shouldn't get into now because I should be asleep (stupid timezones)

I am interested in thinky!Thor. Sadly, there is...so very little of him *pats him*

I'm still poking at Asgard and religion - because they themselves tend to see themselves as more viewed as gods rather than actually gods (going by first movie - by Avengers, Loki's not exactly on Planet Logical Thinking any more, although he knows how the mortals have treated him in the past, so he knows how they should view him.) So I think it's more....it's like the Prince Has Gone Native rather than anything else, I think (because, let's face it, Asgard is imperialistic liek whoa). They have been raised - all of them, Thor and Sif and Loki and the Warriors Three and everyone in Asgard - to believe that they are better than humans. No question about it, they just are. And then Thor comes back all thoughtful and going "no, we're not" - throw in him now having a human-daemon and...yeah, things are going to get complicated.

I read two brilliant Betty fics recently and now I want more Betty! More Peggy! More Maria and Darcy and all the ladies! Actually, I just joined marvelousladies so hopefully there will be wonderful ladies in my future :)

Yeah, I'm more interested in the cultural than the religious. Steve says, 'there's only one god, m'am, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that' or something along those lines. Asgardians may feature in Midgardian myth and legend, but I think it is a case of more myth and legend than religion. Kind of 'god' in the way one religion views a god from another, god with a little 'g' - that is not our God with a big 'G', it is a cute story you are telling yourselves, you backwards people.

to believe that they are better than humans Because they have advanced science - sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic, beyond our tiny human brains' understanding type stuff. Humans are primitive and children. Now, in a verse where Migardians have daemons...does having half of yourself, having your soul (?) in the form of an animal scream primitive or what? Bestial. Oh, okay, there's the thing with Loki and a horse? Myths and comics, whatever, let's just look at the films. It's like us looking at cave paintings and how people used to view animals, the importance of them, and now we're all, 'you want cows, we have fields full' and 'oh, what, no, we made those go extinct'. What would Asgardians think of daemons I wonder?

(Okay, I have guilt, go sleep :P )

Joined! :D I'll have to start writing more. Oh, Betty, you lovely fierce woman.

Well, Steve's obviously Christian, too, so I don't think his statement reveals much beyond his own personal faith. I think the Asgardians inspired the Norse religion (back when it was a religion, not a mythos) but they weren't around much, and tales got far more outlandish while the Asgardians went 'lol' a lot (because they are patronizing, imperialistic dicks *coughs*)

I think the humans having animals for souls absolutely marks them as lesser in the Asgardian view, all "closer to nature" while the Asgardians have that glittery techno-magical city. And also, the humans...well, the Asgardians are all together, all formed-as-one-being, while the humans are split and can argue and disagree and be vulnerable-

:D it's going to be fun.

(Timezones! I'm in Australia, so timezones are eviiiil)