OH MY GOD I WANT TO WRITE ALL THE MARIA HILL FIC NOW. I LOVE THAT WOMAN SO DAMN MUCH.

**brain melts**

I already loved her, but oh my heart, now I love her even more. "You morons" and "Sold you down the river, sir. Should have your job within the month." That she sticks by him and SHIELD even though she sends in negative reports and doesn't always agree and just. YES. AGENT MARIA 'YOU MORONS' HILL. (Her and Natasha together make everyone else nervous beyond belief, true fact.)

DUDE, WE NEED TO WRITE ALL THE FIC. Sugar's already kicked this off, but we need moar.

BUT PROMPTATHON! ARGH! FIC FIC FIC FIC....

(All those people that said there weren't enough women in the Avengers? I said when I first saw it: the women we get are quality characters, thank you and goodnight.)

(WORD.)

(All those people that said there weren't enough women in the Avengers? I said when I first saw it: the women we get are quality characters, thank you and goodnight.)

Yep.

However, we still need more than two. That the ones we get are FANTASTIC I LOVE THEM doesn't detract from the fact that there are only two. Their characters are a brilliant step forward - that doesn't mean that there aren't other steps needed. Which is where I am still complaining, particularly as Romanoff and Hill never even talk to each other. *shrugs*

However, we still need more than two.

I don't think you'll find many people here disagreeing with that.

There are so many awesome female characters in the Marvelverse that I would love to see on film, like Ms Marvel or Wasp. I'll happily do without some white dudes if that means more women and POC on the team.

It would have been great if Avengers had passed the Bechdel test, but the Bechdel test is not the be all and end all indicator of whether a film is successful in portraying women. By the test's own rules Sucker Punch and Sin City pass.

I am aware that the Bechdel test is not the be all and end all - it's another part of a whole. Important, but not the defining feature. However, I still find it mindboggling that Romanoff and Hill couldn't even at least nod at each other, I can love Avengers, and still find it flawed. The men had amazing, interesting interactions...and the women did not. Or, indeed, acknowledge that the other existed.

(And I happened to find Sucker Punch awesome and empowering despite its numerous flaws, for a number of reasons too personal to go into here. It's flawed, yes! But it's very much a YMMV film).

I was just saying that I disagreed with the 'sit down and goodnight' sentiment as it was mentioned above.

The beautiful thing about critical analysis is that there's always room for it, no matter the medium. And there's always room for improvement, no matter the subject matter. And I don't want to speak for inkvoices, but my sympathies with the 'thank you and goodnight' sentiment really stem from the fact that in this case (and in almost every case) I will take quality over quantity when it comes to character construction.

That being said, would I love both? Hell yes. I welcome adding quantity or character interaction in ways that serve the story. But I'm not sure I want moar women for the sake of moar women any more than I want moar anything for the sake of moar. Tell me a story, weave me a tale, take me somewhere I never knew I needed to go, but let it driven by narrative.

That's my two cents. :)

Ah, I didn't think that the 'thank you and goodnight' comment would be taken to mean 'we have quality, I don't care about quantity', sorry. I mean more that yes, there are few women, but look at what what women we got and the improvements on past films. Be no means a full account but some examples:

early Spider Man films' MJ: love interest, has to be told who spider man is, kisses him without caring who he is the first time. Yeah, she has her own interests, but she's a rubbish actress, so that doesn't really work.
first two Batman films' Rachel: lawyer! But wait, love interest. Who two guys fight over. Who then dies.

VS (without spoilers)

Amazing Spider Man's Gwen Stacey: integral to saving the day, smart lady, intern, has her own life, and actually acts like a teenage girl
Catwoman: has own agenda, is not just a love interest (and then there's that other woman in the last film *cough*)
Avengers' Natasha: saves the guy, stops the machine, tricks the God of Lies, and all the other awesome
And our amazing Maria Hill

I guess what I'm saying is, we've had women. Before the ones I mentioned we had Elektra and Storm and Jean Grey and Sue Storm. We always call out for more women, but we don't get them. Women, we are told, do not a superhero action film make. Well, now we're getting female characters of quality and hopefully that will lead to more women, prove that women CAN be wonderful in these films. What I badly meant to say was more: all those people who said there weren't enough women in the Avengers? Did you see the women that we DID get? Our film has the bestest women so far! Yeah, the Avengers has issues, but i'm not hating 'cause we be provin'.

Something like that :)

I think that one of the problems is that the source material doesn't always have many women in, not that they couldn't add more - Nick Fury, after all, is only white in one run (I believe). I count Pepper (going to Washington, running a company, do your homework, bye), Jane (off doing important sceince, bye), Darcy, the woman who gets rescued (Captain America saved my life, sod you haters), the women on the Hellicarrier (who are not the ones playing Galaga), and the woman on the World Security Council ('cause women can be haters too). More women up front would be FANTASTIC! And more POC and more disabled characters and LBGTQ characters and more represent everyone please! But in the mean time, I like that what we're getting is quality representations for a change. Maybe with this quality people will see that, hey, women characters are a good thing, let's have more.

Maria and Natasha need to talk. This should happen. In my head they talk a lot. Also, if they're gonna to Ant Man they should use it to bring in Jan. They've said we're getting more Darcy with Thor 2. Let's have some Sif too! Let's see the extra movies folding more women and more other chracters into the 'verse :D