01 August 2014 @ 10:40 pm
ATTF: comics vs. movies  
Hello! I'm your guest host for tonight's ATTF, and I'll dig right in: comics vs. movies. Did you read the comics (by which I mainly refer to the 616 universe)? Do you have certain expectations, certain things you want the movies to revisit? Do you mix and match the comic canon and movie canon, or do you keep them separate?

To get things started, my two cents are that the characters in the movies and the characters in the comics are at the same time the same and also very different people. A friend of mine once said that the movie characters have a different 'energy' than the comics ones, and I think that's a good description for my take on it as well. Take Natasha: on the one hand you have the woman from the comics who has been around for decades, spy, assassin, criminal with a long and storied history. On the other, you have the movie version, who -- at least based on canon so far -- is far younger, and who, and that's my impression, ymmv, is more empathetic than the comics one. And then Clint: there's the SHIELD agent and assassin from the movies, and then there's the human disaster from the comics who just recently swore he never killed anyone (however true that can be).

The one thing they have in common though, so far -- and will hopefully continue to -- is that they care for each other deeply and that their lives are entangled. They're exes in the comics -- though there's so much more to their shared history. Clint calls Natasha his best friend and his work wife, and one of my favorite comics panels has Jessica Drew (Spider-Woman, at the time Clint's fresh ex-girlfriend) realizing that something must have happened to him by seeing Natasha lose her composure, and she knows that Clint's the only one whose loss would prompt such a reaction from her. Funny enough, I don't ship them in the comics -- I actually ship Clint like fedex with someone else -- while the movie versions are one of my OTPs.

So, now, enough about me, back to the beginning: What about you? Do you keep your Clints and Natashas separate, or do you morph them together? Do you make use of comics canon for movie fic, and if so what is it? What parts of the comics would you like to come up in the movies, and which do you think don't fit? Do you have fic recs for fic that combines them well? Meta recs that either point out the differences or talk about the similarities? Any headcanons you'd like to share, about the things in their backstories that do or don't align? Just remember:

1) Always label NSFW (Not Safe For Work) stuff in the title and post under a cut.
2) Fic and artwork needs to have a rating and warnings (or you can say that you’ve chosen not to use warnings).
3) For people with annoying internet connections, say in the title if a comment is graphic/images/gif-heavy and post picspams under a cut.
4) Have a damn good time! (Because if that’s not happening then this post has clearly failed.)
 
 
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scribblemyname: arrows[personal profile] scribblemyname on August 1st, 2014 09:46 pm (UTC)
I love using movieverse with a hefty dose of comics backstory. That's just kind of how I work with all Marvel 'verse stuff because I came in from TV shows and movies and always wanted more, so mined comics. I love Natasha's comics backstory and her history with the Winter Soldier, so usually take that and I love Clint's carnie/family background, though I headcanon military background as well.

As for comics, I'm Black Widow/Winter Soldier all the way, Hawkeye/Mockingbird, but in MCU, I cannot get enough Hawkeye/Black Widow.

Edited 2014-08-01 09:47 pm (UTC)
i was born difficult for myself[personal profile] geckoholic on August 1st, 2014 10:09 pm (UTC)
Ahaha, yeah, that's how I got into the comics too. Same on the military background for Clint in the MCU. And I'm *dying* to get the carnie and family stuff from the comics on screen, though I'm not holding my breath for the latter. How much I use it/like it used in fic right now though kinda varies, idek. IT'S COMPLICATED, lol.

Heeh, in the comics I'm all for Clint/Kate. The special hell ship, that's where I ended up... XD
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 10:27 pm (UTC)
YES on the military background head canon! And based on what I heard from SDCC, Clint mentions the circus in Age of Ultron, so there'll be some convergence (at least notional ...).
i was born difficult for myself: Avengers Hawkeye2[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 02:35 pm (UTC)
Heeh, yep, I heard. CANNOT WAIT.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:26 pm (UTC)
Why is that the special hell ship?
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:42 pm (UTC)
I think it's an age issue ... ;-)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:44 pm (UTC)
How old is she? And I always thought Clint in the comics was way younger than MCU Clint.
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:52 pm (UTC)
Late teens, 18 or 19. Clint himself describes her as "like, NINE" at one point. The additional issue would be the student/mentor relationship. (That said, I've read a number of Clint/Kate fics that were very good and believable -- she is "old enough" for a consenting, adult relationship IMHO.)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:59 pm (UTC)
Ah got it. Yeah, I don't think 18 or 19 is too terrible...esp. since Clint seems like he is 30 or something? But as a completely unbiased (yeah right, ha!) opinion, Natasha still seems way foxier than Kate (who is cute in her own way).
i was born difficult for myself: Marvel Clint/Kate[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 02:34 pm (UTC)
She's 21 actually, or 20 when the Fraction run starts -- that and Young Avengers V2 run kinda parallel for while, and her birthday is explicitly mentioned. He's 32, I dunno where I saw that confirmed in canon but I'm really pretty sure it was.

And I wouldn't call it too big of a deal myself, but there's wank of the 'omg how could you ship THAT' sort every so often and by now we're calling it a special hell ship ourselves to save everyone the time, lol. /detour

[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 05:27 pm (UTC)
Haha, yeah that is totally ok.
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 10:10 pm (UTC)
For shipping purposes, Clint/ Natasha in the movies, but I have to say that comics are winning me over for fan purposes, mainly because I can read stories all about Natasha where she isn't filtered through a different characters' lens.
i was born difficult for myself: Avengers BlackWidow2[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 02:37 pm (UTC)
True, it gives us her POV which is something we're probably not likely to get in the MCU anytime soon. :/
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 08:55 pm (UTC)
And the same for Hawkeye. Plus, I would KILL for MCU!Kate.
i was born difficult for myself: Marvel Kate Wu[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 08:58 pm (UTC)
Yep, true. The Fraction run is SO consistently wonderful with character insight. *_*

I'm still not sure whether or not MCU!Kate is something I'd want or if I want to box her up and keep her far, far away from anyone who's not Fraction, Gillen or Heinberg. I'm very particular about Kate. XD
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 09:04 pm (UTC)
And given that a lot of people in charge of the MCU can't seem to emphasize with women, I understand your concern. But if they can get GOTG right, then they can do the same for Kate, right?
i was born difficult for myself: Marvel Kate YA14[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 09:06 pm (UTC)
Heh, yeah, I guess you're right. Plus, they're doing a stellar job with Nat whenever they DO decide to give her screen time.
[identity profile] hufflepuffsneak.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 09:07 pm (UTC)
Ahh, I kinda think IM2 wasn't that great in execution, although the script (and Nat) had its moments. But yes, Avengers and Cap 2, SOOO good with Nat.
i was born difficult for myself: Avengers Black Widow[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 09:09 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it wasn't their brightest our, but I've grown more fond of it on rewatch. XD
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 10:24 pm (UTC)
Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Great topic!!

I came to Marvel solely from the MCU, and even that slightly backwards -- started with "Avengers" and then watched the solo films after getting ... umm ... hooked. So my go-to, default mode will probably always be the MCU version of the characters, and those are certainly the voices I have for Clint and Natasha (at least I'd like to think so).

And then I joined be_compromised, and people started talking about the comics, especially Hawkeye, so I started reading/buying those (and now the Black Widow ones). The writing in those is fantastic by any stretch of the imagination, and the art ... AHEM. I picked up an Ultimates Hawkeye book (which I gather is the source for MCU Clint) and a couple of Avengers ones, but can't really get into them -- I find them too ... I don't know. Busy?

I do draw from the comics backstories for both characters, but pretty selectively because the divergent story lines make my head spin. I don't generally overlap comics-Clint or Natasha and the MCU versions in my fics, although I have done in a couple of very short pieces, and after Hawkeye #19 I will certainly be kinder to Barney in my stories ... I can't unsee that amazing issue, and my impression of him has been forever changed.

What I do find cool is the extent to which the filmmakers draw from actual images in the comics to create not only characters, but story boards. Have a look at this:



ETA: forgot to credit Tumblr/romvnov with this wonderful set

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And this stunning gifset by "uskiss" on tumblr:

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Edited 2014-08-01 10:29 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:13 pm (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
I keep saying this but I always had a favorable impression of Barney from the very first time I wikipedia'd Clint. I was expecting a lot about Clint as a kid, but instead it was "Barney decided to run away and join the circus and took Clint with him, Barney wanted Clint to join the army with him, etc. etc." So right there that put a very intersting person in my head...Barney is the one that moved things forward in their lives, and Clint followed. Not that Barney didn't have problems of course, but it was just such an interesting dynamic that I was always so sad there wasn't more about Barney online. I have read a number of Barney fics on ao3, but have to avoid them if they are Clint/Coulson which most of them are :P

I saw the panel of where Clint kills Natasha from the Ultimates recently (read about it long ago but just saw the art recently) and omg, it was too much. Just so wrong!!!
i was born difficult for myself: Avengers team[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 02:46 pm (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Haha, I actually came into it through the first Iron Man movie, which I watched with my ex-boyfriend when it came out. Years later, I think roundabout when Cap 1 came out, a friend sat me down and made me watch ALL THE MOVIES that were out until then so she could drag me into the theater for Avengers. Lol, the rest is history... XD

Yeah, I get what you mean with team stuff getting too busy. I'm picky with that too. And I have been warned off the Ultimates verse extensively -- I'm reading Miles Morales, because cutie, but that's it -- and after a brief check on the Ultimates character summaries for Clint and Nat decided that yup, no, not gonna go there. I will forever be thankful for Clint's costume tho. XD

Man, I have SO MANY FEELINGS about Clint and Barney and each of them on their own after Hawkeye #19. SO MANY. ;__;

And oh, cool comparison! I think the panels in that picspam have been drawn after the movie came out, so it's the other way around, but the way they're translating things back and forth is still SO COOL. I've got the art book for Cap 2 and peaked into a few others at a friend's, and they're showing more of that in there, sometimes, how they're putting the comics aesthetics on screen.
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 03:16 pm (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Actually, now that you reminded me, I DID see Ironman first, which is why I was then prepared to see Avengers. I saw it on a plane coming back from Afghanistan and, whoa -- could I EVER relate to the opening scenes...

And yes on Clint's looks from Ultimates. I think that purple abomination that so many fanboys still mourn is beyond ridiculous. \0/
i was born difficult for myself: Marvel Black Widow gun[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 08:24 pm (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Oh, so you.. how do you say it correctly in english, you served? (It's getting late. Brain can't english anymore. /o\)

And haha, yes. Not missing that thing one bit, I'm ever so grateful they changed his costume in the comics too. X
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 08:40 pm (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Not exactly. Government lawyer, advising our military forces on certain issues related to the conflict. Was there only long enough to know that what they showed in the movie as Baghram Air Base wasn't.

Wir können auch Deutsch sprechen ... ;-) (Although that wouldn't be polite, would it.)
i was born difficult for myself[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 08:55 pm (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Ahh. Now I think I remember you already mentioning once that you're a lawyer. That was you, wasn't it? Lol, I'm still in the process of getting y'all sorted. /o\

Oh, könnten wir. XD But you're right, I guess that wouldn't be polite to the rest. Heeh. Plus, speaking german in a fannish context is SO weird, isn't it?
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 09:50 pm (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Frankly, speaking German in any context (professional, fannish, you name it -- other than the occasional beer) seems weird to me now ... I tried it with some German/Swiss/Austrian colleagues once, in the context of a human rights negotiation, and we ended up going back to English, because how the hell do you translate "gender mainstreaming" ...???

But if you were ever to PM me, I can certainly try and respond in The Mother Tongue.
i was born difficult for myself: Avengers Black Widow[personal profile] geckoholic on August 3rd, 2014 12:07 am (UTC)
Re: Comics to Movies -- PICSPAM!
Heh, I still do it regularly at work and in my private life, but speaking anything other than English online is just... weird? Like, I've had betas who were also German, but we very quickly agreed on English. It's even weird when talking to rl fandom friends about fannish stuff. Plus, I can't write in German. Haven't done it in, like, fifteen years or more, and by now German belongs to, you know. Amtsdeutsch. And yeah, there are just so many words that aren't quite translatable, I can imagine that'd only get worse the more specific your vocabulary gets.

Okay, noted. XD

Edited 2014-08-03 12:09 am (UTC)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:05 pm (UTC)
I haven't read any comics (other than Archie when I was a kid) but I have watched some of the cartoons and read wikipedia and have seen panels online. I ship Clint/Natasha in all of them. Ok, golden age, I don't care too much about simply b/c it just seems SO far off of who I think they are?? Although they are hilarious and I love the romantic love aspect of them.

But yeah, LOOOOOVVVVEEE MCU Clint/Nat of course. I also ship them in the cartoons, especially Avengers Assemble. I don't mind Bobbi as an ex.
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:44 pm (UTC)
Bobbi as an ex has total appeal for me (as does the idea of Clint essentially sleeping his way through SHIELD before falling for Natasha). I have high hopes for her turning up in Agents of SHIELD, so I can find a proper voice for her and sticking her into a story.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:54 pm (UTC)
This is pretty much my exact headcanon for Clint as well.

I sometimes think Fury could have warned Clint not to touch her (especially if she was young when she started and since he has paternal insticts towards her) and subsequently Clint recieved the same glare he got when he brought her back to SHIELD instead of killing her lol.
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 1st, 2014 11:56 pm (UTC)
Um...Fury having paternal insticts toward her. Not Clint. lol
i was born difficult for myself: Avengers Clint/Nat[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 02:48 pm (UTC)
Heh, I've never seen the cartoons. I can suspend disbelief for comics and even an anime or two now and then, but somehow cartoons is where I draw the line. XD

[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 05:31 pm (UTC)
OMG I know. I turned it on one day and couldn't believe how awful it was. But then left it on while I was cleaning and there are actually some funny bits in it. Like there is a scene where Hulk and Thor are fighting and Clint says, "Stop guys. Hulk is the strongest, Thor is the prettiest, what's there to fight about?" LOL Its fine for background noise ;)
i was born difficult for myself: Renner2[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 08:25 pm (UTC)
Heeh, there's worse background noise, I'm sure. XD I've seen gifsets on tumblr, it does look like fun.
ext_36286: movie // avengers // your face[identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 06:34 pm (UTC)
Avengers Assemble Clint and Natasha are fun. Although I think their Earth's Mightiest Heroes versions had more sparkage ;)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 07:07 pm (UTC)
Yes! I have only watched one episode of EMH but I noticed that too.
ext_36286[identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 07:18 pm (UTC)
Bobbi noticed it too... ;)
[identity profile] happilydancing.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 08:31 pm (UTC)
She sure did!
[identity profile] alphaflyer.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 09:45 pm (UTC)
EMH? For me that will forever stand for "Emergency Medical Hologram." :-)
ext_36286[identity profile] allisnow.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2014 06:32 pm (UTC)
I've never actually touched a comic book, so my Clint and Natasha are like 99% MCU. But when you read a lot of fic, you can't help picking up on certain things and blending them into your headcanon, especially since at this point the MCU versions have a lot of blank spots. And because the comics backstories are so varied, it allows for a lot of variety even in MCU-based fic. Which I think is cool.
i was born difficult for myself: Avengers team[personal profile] geckoholic on August 2nd, 2014 08:28 pm (UTC)
I'd have said the same last year, and then whoop, I fell down the rabit hole that is Marvel comics. Still not sure if the two friends who talked me into it deserve a fruit basket or a stern glare for that. XD And yeah, due to the ability to play mix and match with the backstory you do or don't want in MCU fic at this point, there's a lot of different stuff, dealt with in different ways. I'm almost a little sadfaced about that playground getting trimmed down after Avengers 2 is out, lol.